Crazy Idea: Split SCH from ARC and make it a 30+ job like HW

[Sjol]

SCH isn't related to Archer (ARC). It is, however, branching from Arcanist (ACN).

Seriously though, there's no need to decouple SMN and SCH from ACN. The thing that needs changing is ACN should be the pet class where all pet-related management actions should be dumped. As long as FFXIV team is stubborn and does nothing to fix and make pet management work as the core of Arcanist, this issue will not be resolved.

Pretty sure we're about to get an incredibly heavy pet job with Beastmaster.

[rawker]

Pretty sure we're about to get an incredibly heavy pet job with Beastmaster.

We're not even sure if it will be like that. Using that logic, Blue Mage is a caster.. so should that mean that casters should not exist as a casting heavy BLU... exists?

[OgruMogru]

Pretty sure we're about to get an incredibly heavy pet job with Beastmaster.

A limited job that will not interact with battle content in the same way or context as the actual jobs do and that we currently have zero information on.

[Sjol]

Yeah honestly SCH follows ACN better than SMN, SMN makes -5 lore sense at this point, it can be its own class

How so? It didn't seem to me that SCH followed ACN particularly while SMN did. With SMN you're still creating/summoning things from your own aether that only exist as long as you exert effort, while Eos and Selene exist without you -- you literally just find them, and they can do things on their own from a lore perspective.

The tactician angle of SCH doesn't even really come from the ACN school, but instead your collaboration with MAR. None of the abilities to my recollection for ACN mention anything about tactics or strategy.

[rawker]

How so? It didn't seem to me that SCH followed ACN particularly while SMN did. With SMN you're still creating/summoning things from your own aether that only exist as long as you exert effort, while Eos and Selene exist without you -- you literally just find them, and they can do things on their own from a lore perspective.

The tactician angle of SCH doesn't even really come from the ACN school, but instead your collaboration with MAR. None of the abilities to my recollection for ACN mention anything about tactics or strategy.

I'll do Snow a favor and answer this... the pet. Lily healing and casting actions originating from her is the core of the old ACN class... which EW SMN does not do... even remotely

[Sjol]

We're not even sure if it will be like that. Using that logic, Blue Mage is a caster.. so should that mean that casters should not exist as a casting heavy BLU... exists?

Sure, and we should only have one job because they all do damage. Abstracting out to absurdity doesn't really work. And having jobs that are too close to each other has been a very recurring theme on these forums, so clearly there is a point where if two different jobs are perceived as too close then people will have negative opinions about them.

That said, I was responding to your comment that (emphasis mine):

ACN should be "the pet class where all pet-related management actions should be dumped.

You made the argument that there should be a single pet class. That's clearly impossible now as we're getting Beastmaster which will surely be pet-heavy.

[rawker]

Your thread doesn't even mention Beastmaster until you replied to me. Again, we're not even sure of how it will function. So why use it as an argument? Are you part of the job design team that you have the utmost certainty to claim that? Last I checked, this is about SCH and SMN. And the common thing about them are the pets. So it is safe for me to say that ACN should be the pet class. I don't care about Beastmaster when I made that argument.

I may be at fault to conclude that you do not like pet classes in ff14, but the fact that the both SCH and SMN started and branched off from a pet class (ACN), it is only imperative that my argument will only revolve around it.

[Taliriah]

This but instead split rogue from ninja.

*monkey paw curls*
It's called viper and have like 4 huton style buffs to maintain

[Sjol]

I'll do Snow a favor and answer this... the pet. Lily healing and casting actions originating from her is the core of the old ACN class... which EW SMN does not do... even remotely

Admittedly, I think the SMN's pets don't stick around because they're huge. I imagine they play tested SMN with pets that stuck around, and the various aspects were coming from them, but it was just too big on the screen with multiple SMNs. Even with one, you still got the demand to be able to shrink them. This may be one of those compromises. Though that doesn't mean it's not a job with pets, it just means it's not mechanically a pet job. The distinction being input and control mechanics that are part of the game vs. in-world story and lore.

And I LOVE mechanical pet jobs. Necromancers, beastmasters, hunters, rangers, mechanics. If it has a pet, I'm on board. But I still understand the designers need to compromise to get to something that satisfies as many people as possible -- not make them happy or ecstatic -- but satisfies. People wanted to summon big bads. I remember when the new rework came out and so many people were saying, "finally, I'm a real summoner now".

And it's in line with most of the FF franchise where summons weren't something you controlled. They were just something you hit from time to time and watched a minute and a half cutscene as all the knights came by.

[Asari5]

tbh? i think they should just split them. making schoolar a lvl 30 job. they dont even share the same skills anymore. even the ones who look the same and are named the same are two different skills in the programming.

sure it sounds awesome to have two jobs for the work of one. and im sure for people who only play one or neither of them it really is.
but for new player? yes they are excited when they hear about it, but what then? they chose a class because you get a second one leveled at the same time and not because the class appeals to them.
and then they have to keep up with gear and jobquests. which ends with many only playing one class. and when they are 90 they have a full job they dont unterstand.

i would even rolelock it behind having a conjurer on lvl 30, but thats another topic