Low level Combat gameplay and Job identity is HORRIBLE.

[Valence]

Then again, how is clearing a low level and dated dungeon faster than how it's originally was, a bad thing?

Unless FFXIV run on horizontal progression like GW2, with every new expansion released, the gamplay experience at low level dungeon is gonna get worse for both newbie/sprout and veteran due the total amount of abilities in job kit is diluted even further.

This is probably one of the less uglier solution out of other more uglier solutions.

It's bad when mobs die under 5s yes. Which is already close to being a thing, because currently they die under 10s.

People telling me that they can sync all those high level skills appropriately, by how much? What are we talking about here exactly, because you do realize that getting 2-3 stacks of xenoglossy and Fouls of 600p, Flares, etc literally in sastasha is going to nuke everything down right? You can always tell me "oh yeah but the potency of those skills would be cut by half/whatever" and you'd still end up with jobs doing literally at least 50% or double of their actual power output at low level.

I system I could see perhaps is instead to have the system check the total potency per second gained by all the too high level abilities and then readjust the whole kit at low level with a negative coefficient modifier to readjust the final damage output, I don't know... But that sounds like a balance nightmare. But I mean why not?

This whole argument falls appart when you notice many of the older and newer MMOs allready implemented a Scaling system so you can keep most of your abilities While doing "dungeonfinders" what your describing is not an issue.

I don't know how they do it in other MMOs. I know XIV and how its stat scaling works though. Maybe instead of telling me that they do it right because they do, you should start telling me how they make it right to begin with?

[Jeeqbit]

I dont know why they dont do it like WoW. You keep all your skills even when playing a dungeon 20 levels below but everything automatically gets synced to that level.

WoW syncing stuff is news to me. I always heard it was like unsyncing in this game.

But anyway, the way I would see them syncing things is to reduce the potency of actions based on the level difference between the dungeon and the level of the action as a percentage. So eventually, if the dungeon is 100 levels below the action it would reduce to 0 damage.

The issue with an idea like that is not all actions work the same or show a clear potency, so it would require SE to just comb through all the abilities to decide what happens with them.

Also dungeons are scaled based on the types of abilities they give you at that level. Like how mitigation will get buffs in Dawntrail content on tanks or the difficulty of older content assumed many people didn't have gap closers.

Also, I like the idea that we can "sync down to the previous expansion's rotation". It gives content more longevity because you don't feel FOMO, like you have to do the content in this expansion or the rotation will be different. Some jobs have had major overhauls, but they try to keep them as much the same as they always were where possible at the lower levels.

I literally can't learn to play the job when placed in low level dungeons.

Some people queue for low level dungeons on purpose so they can slowly learn their rotation in chunks, in progressively higher dungeons.

[Kleeya]

Each time i see again one these kind of threads, i wonder if people really want that much Sastasha runs that will be 30+ minutes long. Because if entire 90 rotations are made to fit low level dungeons, that's what you will get when stumbling on max lvl players who don't have a clue how to play properly, spamming aoes on a single boss and no even knowing that 1-2-3 combos are a thing, doing 1/10 of the damage we are actually doing in this dungeon with two buttons.

Also getting your entire rotation too soon makes leveling way too boring. That's why, for example, monk has been for me a chore to level from 80 to 90. Absolutely nothing new when it gets to the gameplay, just a few skills becoming more flashy, and that's it. And that was only for 10 levels, i sure don't want to know how it would feel horrible getting your entire rotation at lvl 50, and having no feeling of progression after that.

In short it is another of these genius ideas that if implemented into the game, because of the negatives sides you can see coming from miles away, would end up making the playerbase angry, complaining on the forums that SE should have never done this, and that the players did totally never ask for such a thing.

[DPZ2]

Use your entire level 90 rotation in Sastasha? Sure.

Kill a low-level boss using a skillset you're currently using in late-game raids? Ridiculous.

Begin to wonder why the level 16 Summoner is doing more damage than you because those level 90 skills currently have 1 potency. Priceless.

[Azureskies01]

The dungeons were originally designed for far more abilties at their level than available now. And that happened without rebalancing all dungeons. Lower level balance is terrible, max level balance is far far better. On the other hand it's pretty trivial to scale down numbers from level 90 to anything intended for the level of the dungeon.

Let everyone know you didn't play back in 2.0 without telling everyone you didn't play in 2.0.

15-40 dungeons were always bad because you always got most of your kit and passives at the end of the 1-50 grind. Some classes were worse than others like og black mages being at like ...45? or 48 before they got their passive that allowed them to be black mages.

[OliviaLugria]

They could just frontload the jobs more. Have something that feels complete at 50 and then slowly upgrade and adjust the rotation at higher levels.

Like, black mage should have fire iv by 50 even if it's scaled down. Bard should have all 3 songs, sam should have their 2nd gague.

Everyone at lower levels should have aoe including the healers and melees.

Such a large percentage of content takes place at lower levels, and it's not like they're preserving the original way it was played or keeping the difficulty even. Some people mentioned the slog of the story, but dungeons and trials are part of that slog.

[PyurBlue]

I system I could see perhaps is instead to have the system check the total potency per second gained by all the too high level abilities and then readjust the whole kit at low level with a negative coefficient modifier to readjust the final damage output, I don't know... But that sounds like a balance nightmare. But I mean why not?

No need to look at potency. Enemy HP is already scaled, so use the same scale factor and apply it to final damage just as a damage down debuff does.

Each time i see again one these kind of threads, i wonder if people really want that much Sastasha runs that will be 30+ minutes long. Because if entire 90 rotations are made to fit low level dungeons, that's what you will get when stumbling on max lvl players who don't have a clue how to play properly, spamming aoes on a single boss and no even knowing that 1-2-3 combos are a thing, doing 1/10 of the damage we are actually doing in this dungeon with two buttons.

Also getting your entire rotation too soon makes leveling way too boring. That's why, for example, monk has been for me a chore to level from 80 to 90. Absolutely nothing new when it gets to the gameplay, just a few skills becoming more flashy, and that's it. And that was only for 10 levels, i sure don't want to know how it would feel horrible getting your entire rotation at lvl 50, and having no feeling of progression after that.

In short it is another of these genius ideas that if implemented into the game, because of the negatives sides you can see coming from miles away, would end up making the playerbase angry, complaining on the forums that SE should have never done this, and that the players did totally never ask for such a thing.

I would very willingly take an endless Sastasha where I at least have to focus on my rotation in place of pressing 1 button for 5 minutes. The latter feels like 5 days.

[Zadood]

It's bad when mobs die under 5s yes. Which is already close to being a thing, because currently they die under 10s.

People telling me that they can sync all those high level skills appropriately, by how much? What are we talking about here exactly, because you do realize that getting 2-3 stacks of xenoglossy and Fouls of 600p, Flares, etc literally in sastasha is going to nuke everything down right? You can always tell me "oh yeah but the potency of those skills would be cut by half/whatever" and you'd still end up with jobs doing literally at least 50% or double of their actual power output at low level.

I system I could see perhaps is instead to have the system check the total potency per second gained by all the too high level abilities and then readjust the whole kit at low level with a negative coefficient modifier to readjust the final damage output, I don't know... But that sounds like a balance nightmare. But I mean why not?



I don't know how they do it in other MMOs. I know XIV and how its stat scaling works though. Maybe instead of telling me that they do it right because they do, you should start telling me how they make it right to begin with?

Pardon me, but you haven't answer the question about why it is bad to blitz through a low level, dated dungeon?

It's not satisfying to play low level dungeon with our current abilities kit anyway, why not just blitz it through?

There is zero incentive to rerun a low level, dated dungeon.

Having your job kit gutted only provide negative incentive to rerun a low level, dated dungeon especially when the reward itself is not even rewarding at all.

Before you say things like "Things don't have to always about reward, fun is the most important thing to have when play a game."

Here's the thing, FFXIV combat as well as gameplay in general is dogwater, boring, janky, unresponsive and not fun at all.

The only thing that make FFXIV stand out in seas of MMORPGs is one thing, monetization model.

And before you say things like "FFXIV is going to fall when there is MMORPG with similiar monetization model out there compete with FFXIV."

Like, have you how much yearly revenue BDO/Genshin has make compared to FFXIV? It's like comparing a boulder to a pebble.
If you are studio aim to make MMORPG, then why would you invest a tons of money to develop a MMORPG just to overthrow FFXIV, just for FFXIV's dogwater yearly revenue?
Of course you will develop a MMORPG to actively try to compete with BDO for hoping getting half of that BDO's yearly revenue.

Short answer: There would never be a MMORPG trying to compete with FFXIV.

And CBU3 is clearly understand that and capitalize upon it. Small yearly revenue as it maybe. But still a yearly revenue nonetheless.

[MagiusNecros]

BLU can take their whole kit at any level regardless of Level Sync. Maybe every job should have access to their full kit when you unlock your skills? Maybe fix your spaghetti code?

BLU: Who is the limited job now huh?

[Valence]

No need to look at potency. Enemy HP is already scaled, so use the same scale factor and apply it to final damage just as a damage down debuff does.

On what metrics though? The higher your job level compared to the dungeon, the less damage output to make up for all the additional abilities? Jobs don't exactly have a linear progression in leveling, what would end up being fine in certain cases would go completely overboard either way in others.

On top of what people already brought up, you're literally introducing one more variable affecting damage (and wildly at that) on top of gear differences and skill level and you could end up with the same dungeons taking 30min with some groups and 5min with others.

Pardon me, but you haven't answer the question about why it is bad to blitz through a low level, dated dungeon?

It's not satisfying to play low level dungeon with our current abilities kit anyway, why not just blitz it through?

There is zero incentive to rerun a low level, dated dungeon.

Having your job kit gutted only provide negative incentive to rerun a low level, dated dungeon especially when the reward itself is not even rewarding at all.

Before you say things like "Things don't have to always about reward, fun is the most important thing to have when play a game."

Here's the thing, FFXIV combat as well as gameplay in general is dogwater, boring, janky, unresponsive and not fun at all.

I told you already, as a new player I would have absolutely hated:

1) a dungeon lasting barely 5min with mobs that keel over as soon as they get one hit
2) being essentially totally outmatched and useless compared to synced down players that come to run the roulette
3) rouletters are already speeding through everything like if their life depend on it, you'd essentially get the new praetorium sprout experience before they made cutscenes unskippable

Your logic also holds no ground whatsoever, if the combat and leveling design is dogwater, boring, janky unresponsive and not fun at all, then how is making the content skippable as fast as possible an actually good answer to it in any shape or form whatsoever? Fix the combat or at least the progression leveling system instead of making all the content skippable or bordering on unsync levels...

The design is boring and bad, instead of fixing it, let's just give players ways to skip through it all faster? I actually can't believe I read this.