[Feedback] DRG changes for 7.0 from the LXXXI PLL

[Aco505]

Nah I don't like managing the eye. It is a feels bad mechanic to not go into LotD when I could. I will never understand the desire to be less powerful less frequently than your kit would enable you to be if you used resources as they became available. It's not even about complexity, it's just annoying to hold the eyes when I could be using nastrond.

Eye management was more of a thing in ShB, where you had to actively think whether to delay or not.

This wasn't the case in EW for 90% of scenarios: as long as you started your opener with GSK and used HJ after, you'd always enter LotD with buffs on and everything would be aligned. In some specific fights or situations, you did have to think more about it but it wasn't required at all to beat any encounter.

As fulminating said, delaying or keeping resources to use in buffs is fundamental in this game and almost every job partakes in it. For instance, RPR would not be able to do a double shroud windows otherwise, SMN keeps the 2 Aetherflow stacks from 1-min Energy Drains to use in 2-min buffs for maximum output, and so on.

You also still have positionals for wheeling thrust + fang and claw. The move that comes after will be non-directional. All this does is remove the quick step from flank to rear or rear to flank after using whichever positional you're at. It's good.

Not exactly. Right now, 50% of our GCDs are positionals. In DT, our 5th GCD won't be and so the number will go down to 30%.

If we could enter LotD every 30s after using GSK, the loss of 2 extra positionals every 25s (an entire GCD loop) would not be an issue because our filler would be relatively busy.

However, if we can only LotD once per minute due to a 60s GSK CD, then our filler will become less involved. The 2-min burst window will be fine but we'll have to see if the 1-min bursts are simpler or not compared to now.

Same with removing spineshatter dive. It's just a generic dive that doesn't have a dragoon theme. It is most likely that dragonfire dive will get a 60 second cooldown and multiple charges to compensate for the loss. Which is superior thematically, for gameplay, and for animation. Spineshatter dive has a boring animation and little to no utility in trash pulls compared to dragonfire dive.

All jumps have a DRG theme, it's one of the core aspects of the job. I'd have preferred if they had done something to make SSD more appealing instead of outright removing it.

However, the main complain I see now is that the gap closer we are given in DT is a dash instead of some kind of jump. And I agree with this: the animation should be jump-based as befits the job.

[WantlessYoYo]

However, the main complain I see now is that the gap closer we are given in DT is a dash instead of some kind of jump. And I agree with this: the animation should be jump-based as befits the job

Literally grab SSD and remove the spear in attack animation and you're good to go

Rename it to just dive if anything, perfect

[Asari5]

will we at least get a dragoon jobquest explaining that we finished fighting dragons so we dont have to jump anymore?

[HikariKurosawa]

Eye management was more of a thing in ShB, where you had to actively think whether to delay or not.

This wasn't the case in EW for 90% of scenarios: as long as you started your opener with GSK and used HJ after, you'd always enter LotD with buffs on and everything would be aligned. In some specific fights or situations, you did have to think more about it but it wasn't required at all to beat any encounter.

As fulminating said, delaying or keeping resources to use in buffs is fundamental in this game and almost every job partakes in it. For instance, RPR would not be able to do a double shroud windows otherwise, SMN keeps the 2 Aetherflow stacks from 1-min Energy Drains to use in 2-min buffs for maximum output, and so on.

Eye management is a thing in dungeons with tanks that pull suboptimally. Maybe this doesn't matter to you, but it does matter and is a part of game design that is important for the devs to consider. At the end of the day it's a mechanic that is gone so it's pointless to argue about it. I'm just saying that I prefer the new way over managing eyes.

Not exactly. Right now, 50% of our GCDs are positionals. In DT, our 5th GCD won't be and so the number will go down to 30%.

If we could enter LotD every 30s after using GSK, the loss of 2 extra positionals every 25s (an entire GCD loop) would not be an issue because our filler would be relatively busy.

However, if we can only LotD once per minute due to a 60s GSK CD, then our filler will become less involved. The 2-min burst window will be fine but we'll have to see if the 1-min bursts are simpler or not compared to now.

Lot of speculation based on nothing and a lot of attachment to having 20% more positionals lol. Like you said though "it would not be an issue because our filler would be relatively busy"

All jumps have a DRG theme, it's one of the core aspects of the job. I'd have preferred if they had done something to make SSD more appealing instead of outright removing it.

However, the main complain I see now is that the gap closer we are given in DT is a dash instead of some kind of jump. And I agree with this: the animation should be jump-based as befits the job.

Spineshatter dive is just a worse dragonfire dive with more uses. It is holding back dragonfire dive from being what it should be because of how dragonfire dive works on single target potency. So we have a worse feeling dungeon experience just to prevent our single target rotation from having too much potency. I can't see a world where I would choose more uses of spineshatter dives over more uses of dragonfire dive, but here you are trying to keep spineshatter dive in the game for some reason despite it still having a janky looking ARR animation to this day.

As people have pointed out too, jump animations have more action delay to them than ground based animations. Jumps are cooler sure, but being action locked is literally clunky.

[CidHeiral]

Same with removing spineshatter dive. It's just a generic dive that doesn't have a dragoon theme.

The most iconic Dragoon ability across the entire series is just "Jump," which typically looks exactly like Spineshatter Dive. I'll take SD over that new generic dash we got any day of the week.

[HikariKurosawa]

The most iconic Dragoon ability across the entire series is just "Jump," which typically looks exactly like Spineshatter Dive. I'll take SD over that new generic dash we got any day of the week.

Maybe you haven't looked at the particle effect of spineshatter dive or can't see it over the damage numbers. I have those turned off so I can actually see how bad the animation effect is. Having 2 charges of spineshatter dive on a 60 second cooldown forces dragonfire dive to be on a longer cooldown because of single target potency. You're not seeing the whole picture.

Maybe I will be wrong, but I am pretty sure that removing spineshatter dive is going to mean more frequent usage of dragonfire dive. Why would you want spineshatter dive if it is coming at the expense of using dragonfire dive less frequently? Using spineshatter dive feels like using swiftcast. Generic particle effect animation and unsatisfying sound with no AoE utility. Dragonfire dive is number one.

https://i.imgur.com/4m5EiWf.mp4

Here observe and pick which one you'd rather be casting more.

[CidHeiral]

Why would you want spineshatter dive if it is coming at the expense of using dragonfire dive less frequently? Using spineshatter dive feels like using swiftcast. Generic particle effect animation and unsatisfying sound with no AoE utility. Dragonfire dive is number one.

https://i.imgur.com/4m5EiWf.mp4

Here observe and pick which one you'd rather be casting more.

I'd rather use both and not have my abilities culled to appease non-DRG mains.

[HikariKurosawa]

I'd rather use both and not have my abilities culled to appease non-DRG mains.

Well too bad I guess. I'd rather cast dragonfire dive in place of spineshatter dive personally. Getting more frequent uses of dragonfire dive at the expense of no spineshatter dive will be a huge win. You can't have both being cast frequently, because it's too much potency in single target. Dragonfire dive is vastly superior for dungeons, has a way cooler animation, and is just better thematically like I said. The only reason it's on a 2 minute cooldown with no extra charges is because we have 2 charges of spineshatter dive on a one minute cooldown.

[WantlessYoYo]

Well too bad I guess. I'd rather cast dragonfire dive in place of spineshatter dive personally. Getting more frequent uses of dragonfire dive at the expense of no spineshatter dive will be a huge win. You can't have both being cast frequently, because it's too much potency in single target. .

...

What?
Spineshatter is literally the second least damaging part of your toolkit
If you're argument to remove SSD is "because it does too much dmg" that just shows you don't even play DRG but SSD plainly just doesn't do even half that the rest of your kit does

The real issue with SSD is just went off it's intended use as a gapcloser ability due to actually having potency, but because "it's too much potency"? Nah

Dragonfire dive is vastly superior for dungeons, has a way cooler animation, and is just better thematically like I said. The only reason it's on a 2 minute cooldown with no extra charges is because we have 2 charges of spineshatter dive on a one minute cooldown.

DFD even in dungeons is utter dogshit because you have literally half rest your kit being AOE and doing more between normal AOE combo, GSK, Nastrond, and of course stardiver and recently wyrmind trust
DFD is trash by itself, not because of SSD
animation is literally Spineshatter with... fire
And thematically spineshatter is your classical Dragoon jump ability from all life, hell you're smoking

[HikariKurosawa]

...

What?
Spineshatter is literally the second least damaging part of your toolkit
If you're argument to remove SSD is "because it does too much dmg" that just shows you don't even play DRG but SSD plainly just doesn't do even half that the rest of your kit does

The real issue with SSD is just went off it's intended use as a gapcloser ability due to actually having potency, but because "it's too much potency"? Nah



DFD even in dungeons is utter dogshit because you have literally half rest your kit being AOE and doing more between normal AOE combo, GSK, Nastrond, and of course stardiver and recently wyrmind trust
DFD is trash by itself, not because of SSD
animation is literally Spineshatter with... fire
And thematically spineshatter is your classical Dragoon jump ability from all life, hell you're smoking

Listening to you crybabies is tiring lol. You can't even comprehend what I meant when I said "too much potency" so let me clarify since you're too angsty to think clearly. Having 2 charges of SSD on top of DFD is too much potency for us to have any more uses or lower cooldown on DFD. You act like the job balance doesn't exist lol. It's not a significant amount of potency, it's just that it prevents us from having more charges or a lower cooldown of the superior dive. The animations are not even close to the same either. DFD is clean and satisfying, SSD is old and janky with bad sound design. DRAGONfire dive, "spineshatter dive" lol. The same people who talk about homogenization being a problem in this game will ask for two of the same abilities on one job.