Are we going to keep pretending that PC and console players are the same?

[Aelin_Ashryver]

I'd be down for a console only world first announcement since it's clear every PC world first have been using some sort of third party in every single race. Still would be fun if SE would host a race in JP or something, let people buy in and have a prize for first or something.

[Turtledeluxe]

Of course it does - if I understand you correctly.

Cheaters destroy the value of the ultimate weapons. You are no longer impressed by seeing someone with that weapon, you assume he is probably a cheater.

So why should I invest time and effort in earning those weapons myself when they don't have any value anymore?

Yesyes I know: "the fights are fun" or "but you know you have earned them"

But that's just hot air.

Why did they even added these shiny weapons in the first place? People want a proper reward for their achievments.

But it also works in the other direction: If I see so many people in Limsa who have used cheats to obtain their ultimate weapons - why shouldn't I use them as well? It obviously works and SE does nothing against it. And why stop there? I can cheat my way through all sorts of content!

Because the value does not come from other people. It comes from yourself. The reason cheaters do not affect me and why I do not care about anti cheat is simply because, although I do not participate in most high end content (I've done some min ilvl older stuff for fun and that's about it), I am extremely confident I could accomplish that content with ease.

That said, I'm not willing to put in the time and effort into something like that, based on the experience I already have.

Though I suppose it's a fair point that it makes them "not rare" if it becomes prevalent enough. I don't really consider the minor amount of people in Limsa on any given world evidence that it's extremely prevalent. I can't think of any other map where I see them condensed in that way.

As far as rare weapons btw, I'd say the ARR/HW relics are suitable for that. Not many people seem willing to do that grind.

[Saraide]

Because the value does not come from other people. It comes from yourself. The reason cheaters do not affect me and why I do not care about anti cheat is simply because, although I do not participate in most high end content (I've done some min ilvl older stuff for fun and that's about it), I am extremely confident I could accomplish that content with ease.

That said, I'm not willing to put in the time and effort into something like that, based on the experience I already have.

Though I suppose it's a fair point that it makes them "not rare" if it becomes prevalent enough. I don't really consider the minor amount of people in Limsa on any given world evidence that it's extremely prevalent. I can't think of any other map where I see them condensed in that way.

As far as rare weapons btw, I'd say the ARR/HW relics are suitable for that. Not many people seem willing to do that grind.

Anyone can clear ultimate. It just takes time and a bit of effort. Some people get frustrated through various reasons and quit before but the potential to clear is always there.

Of course it does - if I understand you correctly.

Cheaters destroy the value of the ultimate weapons. You are no longer impressed by seeing someone with that weapon, you assume he is probably a cheater.

So why should I invest time and effort in earning those weapons myself when they don't have any value anymore?

Yesyes I know: "the fights are fun" or "but you know you have earned them"

But that's just hot air.

Why did they even added these shiny weapons in the first place? People want a proper reward for their achievments.

But it also works in the other direction: If I see so many people in Limsa who have used cheats to obtain their ultimate weapons - why shouldn't I use them as well? It obviously works and SE does nothing against it. And why stop there? I can cheat my way through all sorts of content!

Wild take. I'm sorry if you place your self worth entirely on the perception from others. Be proud of your own achievements.

[PercibelTheren]

In the current state of the game, a very large portion of people tackling high-end content are cheating to some degree.

I have been helping with a lot of Criterion learning parties lately, and it's actually rare for me to get into a party where no one is blatantly cheating. How can I tell? In ASS, there are at least two mechanics where Cactbot triggers are able to call the safe-spot before a player can read them manually. And I'm not talking processing speed, I mean the telegraph literally is not visible to the player yet. There is almost always at least one player in each party that will immediately pilot their character to the safespot before there has been any indication whatsoever where it is.

Another funny Cactbot driven phenomenon appears in the final boss of ASS; The callout it makes during the strings mechanic is something simple like 'SW corner'. Cactbot users will frequently just pilot their character deep into this corner, and then stand still, unsure of what to do for the rest of the mechanic while everyone explodes lol.

We exist in a reality in this game where there is probably a cheater in 100% of your lobbies. Could you imagine playing something like Siege or Valorant and having a cheater in 100% of your lobbies? At least this is a co-op game I guess.

People will always find a way to cheat unless not cheating is a big part of what they're doing. As long as they're not raiding for the sake of the challenge and they just want the rewards then you will have cheaters.

[PercibelTheren]

Of course it does - if I understand you correctly.

Cheaters destroy the value of the ultimate weapons. You are no longer impressed by seeing someone with that weapon, you assume he is probably a cheater.

So why should I invest time and effort in earning those weapons myself when they don't have any value anymore?

Yesyes I know: "the fights are fun" or "but you know you have earned them"

But that's just hot air.

Why did they even added these shiny weapons in the first place? People want a proper reward for their achievments.

But it also works in the other direction: If I see so many people in Limsa who have used cheats to obtain their ultimate weapons - why shouldn't I use them as well? It obviously works and SE does nothing against it. And why stop there? I can cheat my way through all sorts of content!

I know this isn't the point of the discussion but I would genuinely like to know this - are people actually impressed by shiny weapons and titles? The only time I even notice them is when an Ultimate Legend tank gets too confident and goes splat on the first pull of something like Pharos Sirius because it gives me a giggle, but that's about it.

[Somnolence]

Why did they even added these shiny weapons in the first place? People want a proper reward for their achievments.

Latest criterion savage has shiny weapons but is comparatively dead content, so clearly this is not enough of a reward by itself.

And old ultimates are quite easy and everyone can do it - I am sure of it since even I managed to clear them via PF

[SieyaM]

Of course it does - if I understand you correctly.

Cheaters destroy the value of the ultimate weapons. You are no longer impressed by seeing someone with that weapon, you assume he is probably a cheater.

So why should I invest time and effort in earning those weapons myself when they don't have any value anymore?

Yesyes I know: "the fights are fun" or "but you know you have earned them"

But that's just hot air.

Why did they even added these shiny weapons in the first place? People want a proper reward for their achievments.

But it also works in the other direction: If I see so many people in Limsa who have used cheats to obtain their ultimate weapons - why shouldn't I use them as well? It obviously works and SE does nothing against it. And why stop there? I can cheat my way through all sorts of content!

Just so I am understanding this clearly. You are admitting here that it's not the actual challenge of the content or even the item itself, but the fact that you get to stand around and feel better than people who don't have the shiniest weapon that makes you want to do content.

[Turtledeluxe]

Anyone can clear ultimate. It just takes time and a bit of effort. Some people get frustrated through various reasons and quit before but the potential to clear is always there.

I agree. The biggest hurdle appears to be time investment and, I guess, the level of teamwork/cohesion necessary to achieve success. If there's a lack of time, motivation, or consensus within the group, it's just not going to happen.

[LianaThorne]

Never really thought people using plugins destroyed the Ultimate reputation tbh, it was paying for clears. Ultimates definitely aren't the only piece of content that people use plugins in but they don't get the same hate ya kno?

[Valence]

I agree. The biggest hurdle appears to be time investment and, I guess, the level of teamwork/cohesion necessary to achieve success. If there's a lack of time, motivation, or consensus within the group, it's just not going to happen.

Pretty much, ultimates are like progging the hardest savages but you have to wait 10+ min between each pull to see the next 10s you're actually progging. It's difficult, but it just stretches progression thin over thousands of minutes of filler testing your team's willpower to get back to the prog point again and again and again.

Artificially inflated difficulty at its finest.