Are we going to keep pretending that PC and console players are the same?

[Turtledeluxe]

Of course it does - if I understand you correctly.

Cheaters destroy the value of the ultimate weapons. You are no longer impressed by seeing someone with that weapon, you assume he is probably a cheater.

So why should I invest time and effort in earning those weapons myself when they don't have any value anymore?

Yesyes I know: "the fights are fun" or "but you know you have earned them"

But that's just hot air.

Why did they even added these shiny weapons in the first place? People want a proper reward for their achievments.

But it also works in the other direction: If I see so many people in Limsa who have used cheats to obtain their ultimate weapons - why shouldn't I use them as well? It obviously works and SE does nothing against it. And why stop there? I can cheat my way through all sorts of content!

Because the value does not come from other people. It comes from yourself. The reason cheaters do not affect me and why I do not care about anti cheat is simply because, although I do not participate in most high end content (I've done some min ilvl older stuff for fun and that's about it), I am extremely confident I could accomplish that content with ease.

That said, I'm not willing to put in the time and effort into something like that, based on the experience I already have.

Though I suppose it's a fair point that it makes them "not rare" if it becomes prevalent enough. I don't really consider the minor amount of people in Limsa on any given world evidence that it's extremely prevalent. I can't think of any other map where I see them condensed in that way.

As far as rare weapons btw, I'd say the ARR/HW relics are suitable for that. Not many people seem willing to do that grind.

[Saraide]

Because the value does not come from other people. It comes from yourself. The reason cheaters do not affect me and why I do not care about anti cheat is simply because, although I do not participate in most high end content (I've done some min ilvl older stuff for fun and that's about it), I am extremely confident I could accomplish that content with ease.

That said, I'm not willing to put in the time and effort into something like that, based on the experience I already have.

Though I suppose it's a fair point that it makes them "not rare" if it becomes prevalent enough. I don't really consider the minor amount of people in Limsa on any given world evidence that it's extremely prevalent. I can't think of any other map where I see them condensed in that way.

As far as rare weapons btw, I'd say the ARR/HW relics are suitable for that. Not many people seem willing to do that grind.

Anyone can clear ultimate. It just takes time and a bit of effort. Some people get frustrated through various reasons and quit before but the potential to clear is always there.

Of course it does - if I understand you correctly.

Cheaters destroy the value of the ultimate weapons. You are no longer impressed by seeing someone with that weapon, you assume he is probably a cheater.

So why should I invest time and effort in earning those weapons myself when they don't have any value anymore?

Yesyes I know: "the fights are fun" or "but you know you have earned them"

But that's just hot air.

Why did they even added these shiny weapons in the first place? People want a proper reward for their achievments.

But it also works in the other direction: If I see so many people in Limsa who have used cheats to obtain their ultimate weapons - why shouldn't I use them as well? It obviously works and SE does nothing against it. And why stop there? I can cheat my way through all sorts of content!

Wild take. I'm sorry if you place your self worth entirely on the perception from others. Be proud of your own achievements.

[Turtledeluxe]

Anyone can clear ultimate. It just takes time and a bit of effort. Some people get frustrated through various reasons and quit before but the potential to clear is always there.

I agree. The biggest hurdle appears to be time investment and, I guess, the level of teamwork/cohesion necessary to achieve success. If there's a lack of time, motivation, or consensus within the group, it's just not going to happen.

[Valence]

I agree. The biggest hurdle appears to be time investment and, I guess, the level of teamwork/cohesion necessary to achieve success. If there's a lack of time, motivation, or consensus within the group, it's just not going to happen.

Pretty much, ultimates are like progging the hardest savages but you have to wait 10+ min between each pull to see the next 10s you're actually progging. It's difficult, but it just stretches progression thin over thousands of minutes of filler testing your team's willpower to get back to the prog point again and again and again.

Artificially inflated difficulty at its finest.

[Jojoya]

Pretty much, ultimates are like progging the hardest savages but you have to wait 10+ min between each pull to see the next 10s you're actually progging. It's difficult, but it just stretches progression thin over thousands of minutes of filler testing your team's willpower to get back to the prog point again and again and again.

Artificially inflated difficulty at its finest.

Time investment is not the same thing as difficulty.

The idea is to complete the fight within a time limit using a restricted set of resources that regenerate at a set rate. There wouldn't be much challenge to it if the encounter could be defeated one tiny section at a time, pausing the timer to let resources completely regenerate before continuing to the next tiny section.

If the group was then challenged to do the entire encounter without stopping after completing it one section at a time, they would fail because they wouldn't have worked out their resource management. Proper resource management is only going to be learned by repeating from the start so you'll know what's available at what points in the fight, what is best used earlier and what is best saved for later.

Having to restart a fight doesn't make it more difficult. Technically the difficulty remains the same. If anything, each new attempt should be just a little bit easier because you've mastered earlier parts.

If willpower becomes an issue, it's because your group is pushing itself harder than it should. Or because some or all of the group won't acknowledge that it's a challenge that just isn't enjoyable to them.

If you're not having fun, don't do it. Developers watch what players do far more closely than they listen to what players say when it comes to making changes or creating future content designs. If large segments of the player base keep forcing themselves to do what they don't like, they're going to get a whole bunch of the same in the future.

[Azureskies01]

Because the value does not come from other people. It comes from yourself.

Bs. The fact that every person I talked to and brought up the fact that I find their ult weapons worthless because they cheated, or someone they were with cheated, then they get super pissed off and offended tells me you are as incorrect as someone can be. They have something they feel others (the majority) don't/won't have so they flaunt it. It isn't enough that most of them look terrible compared to the relics, now you can buy the things for gil... and if you wanna go against ToS buy runs with real money. Thing is most people doing ults have AM or some other form of cheats which is already against ToS so why not sell weapons too?

This is why a game can not put up with cheaters in pve, pvp, pvrpep. It is all the same, some people just making the game worse for everyone else.

[Saraide]

Bs. The fact that every person I talked to and brought up the fact that I find their ult weapons worthless because they cheated, or someone they were with cheated, then they get super pissed off and offended tells me you are as incorrect as someone can be. They have something they feel others (the majority) don't/won't have so they flaunt it. It isn't enough that most of them look terrible compared to the relics, now you can buy the things for gil... and if you wanna go against ToS buy runs with real money. Thing is most people doing ults have AM or some other form of cheats which is already against ToS so why not sell weapons too?

This is why a game can not put up with cheaters in pve, pvp, pvrpep. It is all the same, some people just making the game worse for everyone else.

Wow I wonder why people arent friendly to you when you come at them in an openly hostile way for no good reason. Geez, however could that happen. It must be them being wrong!

[Azureskies01]

Wow I wonder why people arent friendly to you when you come at them in an openly hostile way for no good reason. Geez, however could that happen. It must be them being wrong!

They generally don't care until I bring up addons and or AM/cactbot, then they get in a tizzy about everything. Which has solidified my stance even more. The game needs an anti cheat, end of story.

[Menriq]

They generally don't care until I bring up addons and or AM/cactbot, then they get in a tizzy about everything. Which has solidified my stance even more. The game needs an anti cheat, end of story.

IF they were to implement an anti-cheat, I'd be willing to bet the amount of people banned who use character mods would be magnitudes more than any raiders would. I would imagine the uproar from that crowd would insane.

[Saraide]

IF they were to implement an anti-cheat, I'd be willing to bet the amount of people banned who use character mods would be magnitudes more than any raiders would. I would imagine the uproar from that crowd would insane.

Encountered someone once who unironically thought those character mods were the real cheats compared to cactbot or whatever. Yes including viera hats.