Astrologian: what is your understanding about it?

[Aravell]

B-But my aesthetic! I don't WANT to play the job with RNG and skill expression and reacting to my rotation, I just want to play the pwetty star healer!

Thanks for listening to these people, square enix. I hope they enjoy their white mage with stars because I'm done with the role for good. Sorry for dismissing your opinions about stormblood AST earlier, because apparently I didn't realize how bad the damn alternative could get. I'd rather have stormblood cards transplanted wholesale than this.

For what it's worth, I saw your point of view too, I just think that AST could've been better. Well, it turns out it can be a lot worse too. So we both lost out here.

[Kissune]

For what it's worth, I saw your point of view too, I just think that AST could've been better. Well, it turns out it can be a lot worse too. So we both lost out here.

Yeah, seems like every AST main loses now. Nothing pisses me off more too now than the people saying 'oh my god stormblood cards are back I can finally play the job' and not realizing what made stormblood cards interesting, even if I didn't like them. Never thought I'd see the day this job gets straight up removed. No more healers left for me, I guess. At least Viper looks cool.

Seeya in 8.0? ;3

[Aravell]

Yeah, seems like every AST main loses now. Nothing pisses me off more too now than the people saying 'oh my god stormblood cards are back I can finally play the job' and not realizing what made stormblood cards interesting, even if I didn't like them. Never thought I'd see the day this job gets straight up removed. No more healers left for me, I guess. At least Viper looks cool.

Seeya in 8.0? ;3

Here's hoping 8.0 is better, but for now, I'm a tank main.

[Kissune]

Here's hoping 8.0 is better, but for now, I'm a tank main.

Yeah, I'm gonna be on viper or monk for most of it. Honestly, with as much of a fuss as the JP forums are making about the changes, I expect a 7.X rework, but we'll see.

[ForsakenRoe]

Yeah, I'm gonna be on viper or monk for most of it. Honestly, with as much of a fuss as the JP forums are making about the changes, I expect a 7.X rework, but we'll see.

Oh even JP is making a racket about it? Maybe there's a chance it gets looked at then, since clearly NA/EU have no pull when it comes to influencing decisions they make.

I didn't want to say 'I could make a better AST than SE' until I saw what they were making, but now... Yeh, I think I could make a better AST than SE has here. When they set the bar this low, it's pretty easy to 'do better than the multi-dollar company' too

Here's hoping 8.0 is better, but for now, I'm a tank main.

Might join you on that one. That, or PRanged since the Melee and Caster slots in PFs will be instafilled by Viper/Picto FOTM rerollers I expect

[Kissune]

Oh even JP is making a racket about it? Maybe there's a chance it gets looked at then, since clearly NA/EU have no pull when it comes to influencing decisions they make.

I didn't want to say 'I could make a better AST than SE' until I saw what they were making, but now... Yeh, I think I could make a better AST than SE has here. When they set the bar this low, it's pretty easy to 'do better than the multi-dollar company' too



Might join you on that one. That, or PRanged since the Melee and Caster slots in PFs will be instafilled by Viper/Picto FOTM rerollers I expect

Yeah. A lot of people questioning what is left of the identity of 'playing with fate and destiny and using what you're given' when this is just... buttons that do X. No flavour or substance. The big astrologian thread I don't think I've seen a single positive response about it over there. I personally don't want a return to random unique effects as cards but, at this point? I'd take it. I'd take anything, just not this. Just as long as they're cards.

Also I'm not picking viper because it's FOTM, thank you very much >;3. I'm picking it bc it has a 20s duration personal buff with 2 charges with a 40s CD and that's the most interesting thing they've added since shadowbringers. Which makes me even more mad about this AST rework/deletion because I would have loved figuring out the card timings for Vipers and adjusting to them, instead of just playing two dps cards every 2mins and thats it!

[ForsakenRoe]

Yeah. A lot of people questioning what is left of the identity of 'playing with fate and destiny and using what you're given' when this is just... buttons that do X. No flavour or substance. The big astrologian thread I don't think I've seen a single positive response about it over there. I personally don't want a return to random unique effects as cards but, at this point? I'd take it. I'd take anything, just not this. Just as long as they're cards.

Also I'm not picking viper because it's FOTM, thank you very much >;3. I'm picking it bc it has a 20s duration personal buff with 2 charges with a 40s CD and that's the most interesting thing they've added since shadowbringers. Which makes me even more mad about this AST rework/deletion because I would have loved figuring out the card timings for Vipers and adjusting to them, instead of just playing two dps cards every 2mins and thats it!

See, the way I see AST's current issues is this:

SB AST was good because unique card effects, bad because 4/6 of them were 'not damage' and therefore pointless
SHB/EW AST was/is good because every card is damage, bad because every card is the same effect (damage, more damage if you get the role right)

So why not just... Take the good aspects of both and combine them? That is, 'every card deals damage' and 'every card is unique'? Just have the method by which the damage is dealt per card, be different based on the card used. That way, the 'unique utility' of each card eg Bole's Mit or Ewer's MP regen, those can be 'bonuses on top' that you can choose to prioritize over the damage if you feel it'd be better for the run (eg you need to recover from a death, or the mit going on a squishy for a hard raidwide they keep dying to). So I'd do these effects:

Balance = 10% damage up
Spear = 10% Physical damage up (priority target: Melee)
Spire = 10% Magic damage up (priority target: Caster)
Arrow = 10 stacks of 'your autoattacks are 400% faster', 12 for PhysRanged (priority target: PRanged)
Ewer = 3 stacks on a Healer of 'your spell hits a second time for 100% potency, but cannot crit or DHit' (priority target: Healer)
Bole = 3 stacks of 'counterattack when you are hit, dealing a hit equal to 10% of your Max HP' (priority target: Tank)

If all 6 cards are balanced to have roughly equal damage output, there's no reason to 'fish' for one. Especially if the Seals weren't removed, since they incentivize you to prioritize filling those out and getting all 3 Seal types, rather than playing the same 1 card over and over. By having something like the above, it also means that there's a proper reason to play a card on a Healer or Tank again, something that SHB removed (except for wacky DRK burst trickery)

[ASkellington]

See, the way I see AST's current issues is this:

SB AST was good because unique card effects, bad because 4/6 of them were 'not damage' and therefore pointless
SHB/EW AST was/is good because every card is damage, bad because every card is the same effect (damage, more damage if you get the role right)

So why not just... Take the good aspects of both and combine them? That is, 'every card deals damage' and 'every card is unique'?

Because part of the people who liked SB AST having differing card effects liked the fact that not all of them were damage.

Making them deal damage differently doesn't change the fact that they're all doing damage. And with the effects you listed specifically, these aren't in fun ways either imo. I understand why Haste is an issue in this game and why people don't want it, but that would be more fun for me to give to some one than a blatant 10% physical/magical damage up.

If I'm forced to give nothing but stupid damage then I'd like them to be fun effects - Haste, Freecasts, the counter you mentioned, no blatant % damage up. That's what Divination is for. The cards can do something else.

[Zaytex]

The problem with designing cards to do something other than damage, is that increasing damage output will always be king and the card which gives the most DPS, will be selected every time. Make all the cards not buff DMG and do a different effect? You'll still find little use for most of them, as current healer toolkits are bloated beyond belief and a card which gives damage reduction, will just be overshadowed by exaltation or celetial intersection anyway, for example.

Conceptually giving cards different effects is interesting, and maybe it can be done well. But looking back at SB, I think the best state of cards is if they're all the same (i.e balance). Is it interesting? No, but in practice and gameplay you're always using them. I'd rather have buttons which are less interesting, but find use every time, than interesting buttons which are never pulled out or see the time of day.

[ASkellington]

The problem with designing cards to do something other than damage, is that increasing damage output will always be king and the card which gives the most DPS, will be selected every time. Make all the cards not buff DMG and do a different effect? You'll still find little use for most of them, as current healer toolkits are bloated beyond belief and a card which gives damage reduction, will just be overshadowed by exaltation or celetial intersection anyway, for example.

Conceptually giving cards different effects is interesting, and maybe it can be done well. But looking back at SB, I think the best state of cards is if they're all the same (i.e balance). Is it interesting? No, but in practice and gameplay you're always using them. I'd rather have buttons which are less interesting, but find use every time, than interesting buttons which are never pulled out or see the time of day.

The best state of the cards is not having them all the same. If that's the case delete 5 of them because there's no point in drawing all but one. Divination currently exists as the AOE Balance buff everyone wanted and it can stay for more consistency in AST's kit.

Now I don't disagree that utility cards are going to be niche due to what is in AST's kit but it isn't as if they're going to be dead (I can always substitute Lady over Celestial Opposition if I have it) and it isn't as if we can't make RNG mitigation options instead. One idea I had back when we had Nocturnal for instance was splitting the deck into 3 with damage being drawn under one sect and utility under the other while AST stance danced for instance.

And again, if you're going to talk about "damage cards" being the only thing we are allowed to get, I still stand by no % up buffs. That is what Divination was for. Give me things like Haste, or shorter cast times (Lightspeed for the party?), reflective damage, double cast. Give me things to interact with party's kit instead of just a blatant buff they can pretty much place on themselves. <---That's pretty much what I want out of diverse cards.