SAM gaeshi change severely cripples rotational flexibility and ruins the job for me

[CelestiCer]

The irony... Of players bashing " Hissatsu: Kaiten " for being restrictive? Only to use the same argument to promote restrictive Job design...

We can run into the issue of Dungeon Mobs dying upon casting Tenka Goken and us being stuck with Kaeshi Goken cause we casted Meikyo with the inflexibility to cast anything else until we hit the next mob pack? or of course worse case we encounter next boss and its a feels bad. Open-world encounters can also be worse like Fates/Eureka/Bozja where Mobs die by Tenka Goken and you're in a wasted Tsubame state for no Kaeshi: Goken. And were going to have assume Square takes this into account... Could say just don't use Meikyo now forehead, sure... or how about just don't make Samurai clunkier with unnecessary changes that doesn't tackle/fix anything. It doesn't even make the Job more difficult either, just more restrictive to solve nothing. Were arguing more for the benefit of accessibility for newer players or players new to Samurai...

Threads like these shows me that there players who don't wish to understand Samurai or adamantly happy in turning Samurai more face-roll then it is, without knowing to suggest how to do that? And the changes shows me that the Dev-Team has no Samurai main on it, mhm. There's also the Senei/Guren trait that we still have to see how that works, although it probably will boil down to casting Senei instead of a Shinten so we can finally not have our 1/5th of our gameplay be Shinten spam but... maybe 1/4th...

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

The irony... Of players bashing " Hissatsu: Kaiten " for being restrictive? Only to use the same argument to promote restrictive Job design...

We can run into the issue of Dungeon Mobs dying upon casting Tenka Goken and us being stuck with Kaeshi Goken cause we casted Meikyo with the inflexibility to cast anything else until we hit the next mob pack? or of course worse case we encounter next boss and its a feels bad. Open-world encounters can also be worse like Fates/Eureka/Bozja where Mobs die by Tenka Goken and you're in a wasted Tsubame state for no Kaeshi: Goken. And were going to have assume Square takes this into account... Could say just don't use Meikyo now forehead, sure... or how about just don't make Samurai clunkier with unnecessary changes that doesn't tackle/fix anything. It doesn't even make the Job more difficult either, just more restrictive to solve nothing. Were arguing more for the benefit of accessibility for newer players or players new to Samurai...

Threads like these shows me that there players who don't wish to understand Samurai or adamantly happy in turning Samurai more face-roll then it is, without knowing to suggest how to do that? And the changes shows me that the Dev-Team has no Samurai main on it, mhm. There's also the Senei/Guren trait that we still have to see how that works, although it probably will boil down to casting Senei instead of a Shinten so we can finally not have our 1/5th of our gameplay be Shinten spam but... maybe 1/4th...

Just confirm this for me if you can as I kinda learned Samurai without guides - due to the 55s recast outside of the opening burst you essentially only used one Meikyo for 2min bursts and the other was drifting around and used to keep the cooldown rolling for optimisation, no? Because that's how I thought about it since you naturally build 3 Sen for Midare + Tsubame 1, build 1 for higanbana after and meikyo for the Midare + Tsubame 2, right?

[CelestiCer]

Just confirm this for me if you can as I kinda learned Samurai without guides - due to the 55s recast outside of the opening burst you essentially only used one Meikyo for 2min bursts and the other was drifting around and used to keep the cooldown rolling for optimisation, no? Because that's how I thought about it since you naturally build 3 Sen for Midare + Tsubame 1, build 1 for higanbana after and meikyo for the Midare + Tsubame 2, right?

Like if we exclude freestyle Samurai where you just faceroll your keyboard... What you mentioned is ( sorta ) correct.

Lets take the format of Extreme / Savage where a fight lasts 9 minutes. This means generally you get to execute four 2 min burst phases and try to fit them into Raidbuffs. Aside from Opener and the final Burst at 8:10 min ( give or take ) you generally will want to enter it with maxed out resources and 3 Sen for Midare and due to your rotation only 1 Meikyo for a Midare + Tsubame ending. Player error can be a factor, were not perfect AI were humans... Raid Buffs and your Burst can for whatever reason be misaligned from each-other even by a second.

With the introduction of this change? Technically nothing changes about the rotation... you can enter burst with Midare and Tsubame, it's just that you now need to weave Meikyo before you cast Midare if were to assume they are adding a Tsubame buff State just like how Ikishoten activates an Ogi state to allow us to cast Ogi Namikiri. Meikyo buff currently only lasts 15 seconds, which makes casting everything before even using 1 stack of Meikyo into Gekko/Kasha very tight unless we trust Square to account for this and also how long the Tsubame buff state lasts. It makes it unnecessarily rigid, more timers for new players to account for possibly and this is only in the vacuum of single target Extreme / Savage raiding...

We also don't know what else is being changed other then the Senei / Guren trait that can affect what I just stated... All I know for sure and its not rocket science... this makes as far as we know it? Samurai more rigid.