Astrologian changes feedback

[ForsakenRoe]

Did I like the RNG? Yes, but at the same time it A) made the class overly complicated for people who are just playing the class for the aesthetic and B) annoyed the more hardcore players by forcing them to battle the RNG gods.

I feel like this "rework" is basically Expedient... That, when it was revealed everyone clowns on it, but then it turns out really powerful once we see the actual numbers/mechanics.

The point of the class is that it's a Tarot inspired class. You don't go to a Tarot reading with a couple of friends and get the same 3 cards for all 3 of you. The RNG IS AST, it's the very core of the job's identity. Removing it is tantamount to removing the job from the game.

The people who play 'only for the aesthetic' would not be playing at a high enough level for the RNG to screw them. The ones that are at a high enough level of skill to have the RNG matter, should have the skill to play around the RNG. If you're in Savage as an AST, but don't know how to play around the RNG of the cards, you probably shouldn't be in Savage on an AST, it's that simple. I don't go into Savages on a BLM, because I don't know how to play around the infamous 'BLM has to turret' gameplay style.

As for hardcore players 'battling the RNG gods', welcome to barsing. If you don't crit, you reset. If you get bad card draws, you reset. If your ally doesn't crit during your burst window (thereby making your RDPS lower), you reset. Removing RNG to cater to that kind of gameplay is a neverending path, that would lead us to such things as 'removing positionals' and 'removing crit/dhit', eventually it'd sterilize all variance out of the game.

Expedient wasn't just 'memed on, but then turned out to be powerful', it was also 'turned out to be very fun'. This new card system can cause the SAM to deal 50x damage for 15sec for all I care, that doesn't mean it's FUN. Powerful can be an aspect of what makes something 'fun', but it's not the entire package, and if it's only 'powerful' but not fun to execute, then the system's a failure

To me the new card system looks more interesting than what we currently have. In the trailer cards seem to still be random and different. At least they are different arcanas in both instances of draw and also have different outlines, which to me implies, that their effects are not always the same, but that drawing cards only guarantees the same amount of cards from each category.
Or has it been confirmed that every 60 seconds we will in fact draw the exact same 4 effects every single time, and the different aracanas and outline colors are merely decoration?

The first three cards are played, then when the second three are drawn, none of that second set of three are the same card as the first set contained. Effectively, it's going to be akin to SMN, where it has Garuda Titan Ifrit every 60s, we have 'damage card, defensive card, healing card' every 60s. It might be that, for example, Balance is 10% damage up and Spear is 15% Crit rate up, but at the end of the day, you're drawing either Balance or Spear into the 'damage slot'. As such, there'd be no variance in what you do with that card, it's always a damage related card so it always goes on the best Melee DPS you have.




As another example, let's say Bole is 20% damage mitigation, and Arrow is 20% Evasion rate or something, to make them both 'defensive cards'. Why would you ever choose to play them on something other than the Tank in a raid, and as such, why have the distinction in the first place? There's no 'decision making' to be done for that slot, the 'defensive card' slot, because regardless of the effect, it'd be best to put it on the Tank, and so you don't even need to look at the card you drew, you just play it on the Tank either way. The same applies to all three slots really, Damage slot goes on 'strongest DPS' regardless of the card, Defensive goes on Tank regardless of the card, and Healing gets held onto for the very not-often chance that it's needed to heal something that our over-bloated kit of OGCDs cannot already handle. At least that one might have some distinction/decision making (eg if one Healing card is a heal and one is a shield)

[Xelanar]

The first three cards are played, then when the second three are drawn, none of that second set of three are the same card as the first set contained. Effectively, it's going to be akin to SMN, where it has Garuda Titan Ifrit every 60s, we have 'damage card, defensive card, healing card' every 60s. It might be that, for example, Balance is 10% damage up and Spear is 15% Crit rate up, but at the end of the day, you're drawing either Balance or Spear into the 'damage slot'. As such, there'd be no variance in what you do with that card, it's always a damage related card so it always goes on the best Melee DPS you have.

As another example, let's say Bole is 20% damage mitigation, and Arrow is 20% Evasion rate or something, to make them both 'defensive cards'. Why would you ever choose to play them on something other than the Tank in a raid, and as such, why have the distinction in the first place? There's no 'decision making' to be done for that slot, the 'defensive card' slot, because regardless of the effect, it'd be best to put it on the Tank, and so you don't even need to look at the card you drew, you just play it on the Tank either way. The same applies to all three slots really, Damage slot goes on 'strongest DPS' regardless of the card, Defensive goes on Tank regardless of the card, and Healing gets held onto for the very not-often chance that it's needed to heal something that our over-bloated kit of OGCDs cannot already handle. At least that one might have some distinction/decision making (eg if one Healing card is a heal and one is a shield)

With that being confirmed, I guess I DO like the new system more and am excited to try it out.
Thanks for clarifying ^_^.

But I guess I could go more into detail as to why I prefer this over our current system.

The damage slot: basically what we currently have. Draw card, throw on DPS every 60 seconds. Nothing exciting here.
The defensive slot: can go on a tank if it helps their CD management for tank busters. Otherwise I'm keeping it as an emergency card for that ONE player who always gets hit during P12S superchains, so he won't die to successive AoEs.
The healing slot: an emergency healing, in case my co-healer dies unexpectedly. Or I just use it instead of another oGCD to have that oGCD ready for emergencies. Or I use it to solo heal mechanics to allow my co-healer to farm parses (something I personally don't care about). I'll find uses for it. I've always found uses for everything, even for the old Spire, back when TP were still a thing.

I love utility. It's useless when everything goes right. But when something goes wrong - I have lost count of how many boss kills I have saved because of "useless" utility, or because I opt to have Lightspeed for emergencies instead of using it to play cards during burst windows, when enrage is not an issue. So I guess this change just caters to me. They brought back the utility that I liked about the older card systems, even if only a little bit.

I do understand why not everyone is fond of this change though, and this problem will only get worse with every rework, considering each iteration of AST will have its fans xD.

[Kissune]

The damage slot: basically what we currently have. Draw card, throw on DPS every 60 seconds. Nothing exciting here.

Even less exciting, because you'll bank the 60s card for the 2min window and play two there. But they'll also be the same two cards every time, played on the same two people every time, so there's not thought that goes into it.

The defensive slot: can go on a tank if it helps their CD management for tank busters. Otherwise I'm keeping it as an emergency card for that ONE player who always gets hit during P12S superchains, so he won't die to successive AoEs.

Why not just give us a button that says 'give 10% mit to target' because it's basically the same thing, and leave cards alone

The healing slot: an emergency healing, in case my co-healer dies unexpectedly. Or I just use it instead of another oGCD to have that oGCD ready for emergencies. Or I use it to solo heal mechanics to allow my co-healer to farm parses (something I personally don't care about). I'll find uses for it. I've always found uses for everything, even for the old Spire, back when TP were still a thing.

What, because three stacks of essential dignity aren't enough?

Why not just play white mage if this is the playstyle you like? Or Scholar, with its aetherflow, because that's what this is now. It's just aetherflow that forces you to use it in stricter ways. All this does is make AST identical to the other healers by taking any and all on the fly decision making out of the class in favour of giving us the exact same standardized tools at the exact same time with zero variance as every other healer. If I wanted to play the other healers I would, but instead my main has to die because people want their fourth basic healbot, mechanical skill free.

[Xelanar]

Even less exciting, because you'll bank the 60s card for the 2min window and play two there. But they'll also be the same two cards every time, played on the same two people every time, so there's not thought that goes into it.

Why not just give us a button that says 'give 10% mit to target' because it's basically the same thing, and leave cards alone

What, because three stacks of essential dignity aren't enough?

Why not just play white mage if this is the playstyle you like? Or Scholar, with its aetherflow, because that's what this is now. It's just aetherflow that forces you to use it in stricter ways. All this does is make AST identical to the other healers by taking any and all on the fly decision making out of the class in favour of giving us the exact same standardized tools at the exact same time with zero variance as every other healer. If I wanted to play the other healers I would, but instead my main has to die because people want their fourth basic healbot, mechanical skill free.

I wrote that under the assumption that the cards in each card slot have different effects. If they don't, then I agree with you, and am probably going to quit healing entirely, because I'm not really fond of the other healing jobs either. Specially WHM. I guess I'll have to wait for job adjustment details to make sure what I'm getting into? If the two card sets are different enough to actually matter, then I'm very much on board with the change though.

(On a side note: the current 2 stacks of essential dignity have proven to not be enough on some of my attempts. I take everything that I can get xD)

[Kissune]

I wrote that under the assumption that the cards in each card slot have different effects. If they don't, then I agree with you, and am probably going to quit healing entirely, because I'm not really fond of the other healing jobs either. Specially WHM. I guess I'll have to wait for job adjustment details to make sure what I'm getting into? If the two card sets are different enough to actually matter, then I'm very much on board with the change though.

(On a side note: the current 2 stacks of essential dignity have proven to not be enough on some of my attempts. I take everything that I can get xD)

They do have different effects, but you will always draw the same ones every time. You draw one set at 0s, set two at 60s, and then back to set one at 120s and you repeat. The cards in each set are the exact same 4, every single time, with no variance whatsoever. Even if the effects are different, knowing exactly what you are going to draw ahead of time entirely defeats the purpose of having them be called 'cards' in the first place, because they just do not function like them anymore. They're cards only in name and vfx, not mechanically. EW cards have more in common with SB cards than DT cards will have with any of them. Bc the common thread between AST reworks has always been 'you need to play around what you get, not what you always have'. Now you always have everything.

Like... what difference does it make if the 'curative' card is a flat potency heal on one set, and a nice regen on the other? Even if the sets have different buttons, that doesn't change the fact that there's no real thought that goes into them. You either use them somewhere, or you don't, but there's no way to get rid of a card you don't want like royal road or to mitigate the RNG with redraw or to make do with your draw. It's either the fight needs you to use X tool at X time, or it doesn't. And if it doesn't, you press the drawtherflow button at 60s and just overcap it, or you throw the card into the void. You press your dps button at the same time, on the same people. You'll use your designated mit button at the same time, on the same people. You'll use your designated heal button at the same time, on the same people, or you'll keep it as 'insurance' instead of using your third ED charge and not need it most of the time.

[Xelanar]

They do have different effects, but you will always draw the same ones every time. You draw one set at 0s, set two at 60s, and then back to set one at 120s and you repeat. The cards in each set are the exact same 4, every single time, with no variance whatsoever. Even if the effects are different, knowing exactly what you are going to draw ahead of time entirely defeats the purpose of having them be called 'cards' in the first place, because they just do not function like them anymore. They're cards only in name and vfx, not mechanically. EW cards have more in common with SB cards than DT cards will have with any of them. Bc the common thread between AST reworks has always been 'you need to play around what you get, not what you always have'. Now you always have everything.

Like... what difference does it make if the 'curative' card is a flat potency heal on one set, and a nice regen on the other? Even if the sets have different buttons, that doesn't change the fact that there's no real thought that goes into them. You either use them somewhere, or you don't, but there's no way to get rid of a card you don't want like royal road or to mitigate the RNG with redraw or to make do with your draw. It's either the fight needs you to use X tool at X time, or it doesn't. And if it doesn't, you press the drawtherflow button at 60s and just overcap it, or you throw the card into the void. You press your dps button at the same time, on the same people. You'll use your designated mit button at the same time, on the same people. You'll use your designated heal button at the same time, on the same people, or you'll keep it as 'insurance' instead of using your third ED charge and not need it most of the time.

Ah, now I see what you mean. I guess that's true. The job is completely predictable once the change goes live.
I had not considered that there is only two fixed sets of cards interchanging. For some reason I thought there were more sets to draw than just the two that were shown.

[ForsakenRoe]

Ah, now I see what you mean. I guess that's true. The job is completely predictable once the change goes live.
I had not considered that there is only two fixed sets of cards interchanging. For some reason I thought there were more sets to draw than just the two that were shown.

But again, even if the 'sets' are variable, ie you can draw Balance or Spear to the 'Damage' slot, and you might alternate BSBSBSBS for one pull, but the next might be BBSBSBSS, it does not matter. Because whether you get 'damage up because damage% increased' or 'damage up because crit rate increased', it does not matter. The two effects, despite being different in the appearance of their function, have the same base effect of 'the target does more damage in some way', and as such, regardless of whether you drew Balance or Spear, you'd play the card on the same hard hitting DPS. You literally would not need to look at the card you drew, because if result A means 'use on the SAM' and result B means 'use on the SAM', there's your end result: draw, use damage card on the SAM. No thinking needed.

I suppose, with the border of one set being blue and the other being purple, the cards could still be 'one is better on ranged, one is better on melee' and have at least SOME adaptability required, but if it's Draw Blue at even minutes and Draw Purple at odd minutes (ie it always goes BPBPBPBP in alternation) then it's going to be very stale and predictable