Positionals

[LilimoLimomo]

My opinion on positionals is that I think they can be an interesting design element when used thoughtfully, but unfortunately they've been ham-fisted into every single melee class as a careless afterthought. That is, with one exception: Monk is doing it right, with positionals being one of the biggest mechanics for the class. Because they're ominipresent, they give the class a distinct feel to play, that of a close-range fighter that is constantly strategically repositioning.

But all the other jobs suffer from that ham-fisting. For example, when I think of the job fantasy of playing a Dragoon, it's all about doing big jumps and attacking from above. Doing a slight step to the side so that I can attack from the side instead of the back? That doesn't have anything to do with the Dragoon class fantasy. When was the last time you saw Estinien do anything close to that?

And then there's Samurai, a class that very explicitly draws from the romanticized version of everyone's favorite bushido-following warriors. And yet, in opposition to the samurai narrative that the game seems to draw from in every other way, the design of the gameplay explicitly asks Samurai to attack their targets from behind. In the mythos of the Samurai, that's dishonorable...

And of course, then we have Rogue/Ninja. I love when the Rogue backstabs for high damage; it's such an iconic and fun maneuver...but it's mysteriously absent from FF14. There's no attack that makes the big numbers happen when done from behind. Instead, Rogue/Ninja has Trick Attack (which gets a forgettable increase of 100 potency when done from behind) and its other positionals are just the same as the other melee classes. And because every other class has those same positionals, the positionals that Rogue does have in their combos don't feel like a Rogue thing and instead just feel like a melee thing.

To be clear, I'm not opposed to there being technically challenging or engaging elements to playing melee classes, but this ain't it. Melee classes deserve better than to all have positionals crammed into their move lists just because the devs couldn't think of any additional ways to raise the skill ceiling for melee classes that were actually relevant to their job fantasies.

[Lyth]

In Final Fantasy I, Black Mage spells have no cast time. They deserve better than to have cast times tacked on to all their spells, just because the devs couldn't think of any other way to raise the skill ceiling for magical ranged.

The core reason why you'll advocate for this is because the follow-up becomes: if melee dps no longer have positionals, shouldn't casters do more damage? Shouldn't we move to a double caster comp as default?

[1313]

Don't worry folks, they'll remove them entirely in Dawntrail, and introduce a mini game like blues clues while they drop the game rating down to E for everyone. Please look forward to it.

[rawker]

In Final Fantasy I, Black Mage spells have no cast time.

Using the same argument, FF VIII had cast times when summoning Guardian Forces.. Look at FFXIV SMNs.

[Tint]

Using the same argument, FF VIII had cast times when summoning Guardian Forces.. Look at FFXIV SMNs.

SMN is the best argument against positionals.

When we can have a mage without casts then we sure can have a melee without positionals.

NIN originally was released without them. The Mudra system was supposed to be "their" thing. Positionals only got added in HW.

[mallleable]

Postionals do kinda put me off from playing more melee DPS -- I think they're tedious, arbitrary, and lackluster, but they should not remove them so that non melee dps players like me can find enjoyment from the jobs. As stated before, I think I would be in favor of trading postionals for riskier attacks, and job mechanics that force or restrict movement as they would still offer gameplay choices even in omni-directional/wall bosses.

[Lyth]

...

SMN still does have some casts, though, much the same as some melee dps have fewer positionals while others have more. Those comparisons on cast times and positionals then get used for players to argue in favor of their preferred job doing more damage than everyone else.

I think it's a mistake to design a role around people who hate playing it.

[rawker]

SMN is the best argument against positionals.

So what are BRD, DNC, MCH to you? All mages should have cast times in their spell casting. Should a ranged DPS have no cast times then it is better off as a Ranged Physical DPS.

[Turtledeluxe]

Pretty confident based on responses so far this is not at all a popular opinion.

Just because something has been in the game since launch does not make it outdated. So I am curious to know what other evidence there is that this mechanic is outdated. By this logic the game is outdated so we should just close it down.

[Alice9]

Personally I really enjoy positionals and would rather them stay. In my mind it is added, welcome "difficulty" that raises the skill ceiling for certain jobs especially in harder content. I find it satisfying to find ways to hit them in cases where it would be more difficult to do so. Yes, it may be "hollow difficulty" in most content, but it is still more interactive than not having them at all. Just my opinion, but further simplification is something very much *not* needed in this game. Especially considering you can just ignore positionals if you really don't like them that much. Your damage will take a hit but unless you're doing harder content with checks you really don't have to worry about damage much at all in this game. And if you're only playing a job for its damage then you should probably be at least a little willing to put in the "effort" required to do your best. Ultimately its a small thing, but to me it adds some flavor.