Can we have an honest conversation about the Scions? Dawn Trail

[Katish]

This is definitely a 21st century take on television shows. Broadcast television didn't create shows to be binge watched before streaming media, Nostalgic cable TV stations and DVDs of older shows made mass profits from a new generation watching older shows.

Most long-running broadcast television shows maintained their original cast because if too many cast members changed, people lost interest. If the original cast members of Friends or Seinfeld (as examples) had suddenly disappeared, the shows would have been a disaster. (Hmmmm. That might explain why the Friends spinoff, Joey, only lasted two seasons.)

MMORPGs are not "different games" in the sense of The Witcher and The Witcher 3. They are continuations of a single long-running game with multiple episodes and a gameplay and feel that has been fairly stable throughout the years.

It certainly is a 21st century take, but those are the times we live. And binging is one of the reasons why streaming became big in the first place. But I agree.

As for the mmo portion, even in character development in msq...characters don't tend to stick. That is fairly an ffxiv thing (Vindictus, Mabinogi, Maplestory, WoW, etc do not do this typically). You might get cameos or side quests but that is typically it. The characters introduced are there for that msq and that's it, they usually aren't even main characters. Now lingering characters is not a bad thing, I fairly like that aspect of ffxiv, but again after a time they become dull and thus a need for a breath of fresh air. Even Mabinogi's background lingering characters were retired after 6 years...and that game is quite story heavy. (26 or so msqs maybe more by now)

[kaynide]

As for the mmo portion, even in character development in msq...characters don't tend to stick. That is fairly an ffxiv thing (Vindictus, Mabinogi, Maplestory, WoW, etc do not do this typically). You might get cameos or side quests but that is typically it.

This is simply not true though; there are a lot of MMOs out there, all very different. Some have long term characters, some don’t.

Guildwars 1 (like 30 years ago), was a game where a core group of NPCs were essentially the story drivers that you went with to do whatever expansions. Some new ones came and went, but typically you adventured with them from start to finish, over like 4 expansion packs. They still exist somewhat in the current Guildwars 2.

Guildwars 2 also continues this tradition, generally having some NPCs carry over from expansion to expansion.

Even FF11, which tended to have more expansion specific characters than not, would often utilize NPCs across expansions, even mixing them up a la Avengers for finales.

Point being, it’s not really a trend either way, it just depends on the story the devs want to tell and whether that warrants keeping a stable of consistent NPCs.

[Katish]

This is simply not true though; there are a lot of MMOs out there, all very different. Some have long term characters, some don’t.

Guildwars 1 (like 30 years ago), was a game where a core group of NPCs were essentially the story drivers that you went with to do whatever expansions. Some new ones came and went, but typically you adventured with them from start to finish, over like 4 expansion packs. They still exist somewhat in the current Guildwars 2.

Guildwars 2 also continues this tradition, generally having some NPCs carry over from expansion to expansion.

Even FF11, which tended to have more expansion specific characters than not, would often utilize NPCs across expansions, even mixing them up a la Avengers for finales.

Point being, it’s not really a trend either way, it just depends on the story the devs want to tell and whether that warrants keeping a stable of consistent NPCs.

That is the sole reason why I brought up cameos. Lel main characters typically take breaks so they can introduce new characters in said plots, we really haven't had that it's been the same overall characters all the way back from ARR. With minor characters being removed or repurposed.

Note I said typically, there still does exists mmos where main characters are present in the story but that isn't the case in most mmos as most mmos, although they have a story, isn't exactly the main selling point of the game. In fact I even brought up an example last post of an mmo where main characters were present, as like FFXIV it is msq heavy (it kind of sells the game on the msq due to having multiple storylines or generations each year), but eventually got retired or they are there but have blended into the background. I think FFXIV needs the same or at least a break from the main cast. Especially after ten long years.

Though I agree, that there are multiple mmos that are vastly different that isn't the point though. The point is this game kind of sells itself on the msq and the characters in the msq, if you treat each expansion like a whole new game, such as myself, the characters start to smell like dead fish xD. If you disagree, that's fair...but I think a lot of people play this game strictly for the msq and that's it.

[Iscah]

Though I agree, that there are multiple mmos that are vastly different that isn't the point though. The point is this game kind of sells itself on the msq and the characters in the msq, if you treat each expansion like a whole new game, such as myself, the characters start to smell like dead fish xD. If you disagree, that's fair...but I think a lot of people play this game strictly for the msq and that's it.

You say that like anyone who plays the game for the story will automatically dislike the Scions by this point, but that isn't the case.

The characters are "old friends" at this point and I have no desire for them to stop being part of the story.

We'll go to new places and meet new people in addition to them, but I don't have any desire for them to leave and be replaced with a different core cast.

They are the cast of FFXIV, and if I want a different group of characters I'll play a different game.

[Katish]

You say that like anyone who plays the game for the story will automatically dislike the Scions by this point, but that isn't the case. Even in irl I could not possibly stand friends if they were glued to me always.

The characters are "old friends" at this point and I have no desire for them to stop being part of the story.

We'll go to new places and meet new people in addition to them, but I don't have any desire for them to leave and be replaced with a different core cast.

They are the cast of FFXIV, and if I want a different group of characters I'll play a different game.

I only speak in my own voice, as I understand some people like the Scions. I do like the Scions as well but again to me they have stuck around for too long that I need a break. This is the only game I have played where the main crew felt like they're stalkers than actual characters xD. Even irl, I could not stand a friend if there were always glued to me, even as a collective "friend group". And just cause I talk to new friends or remain by my lonesome, does not mean I do not cherish the friends I have made, in fact it amplifies that cause it allows me to collect my thoughts in how I feel about them, but if they are always around I can't do that.

[Merrigan]

Just imagine if we had the same conversation IRL though. The violence of this :

"Nah sorry mate, I won't hang out with you anymore. I've finished your character arc. Just do cameo from now on please"

"But... But we've known each other for 10 years, I don't...

"Yeah, that's right. You're starting to get a bit repetitive."

"... You're a bastard"

"No no, you misunderstood me; I still want to see your face from time to time. Stay close enough so we can see each other every few months, for my nostalgia shots, but don't follow me any more, otherwise I'll call the cops".

[Iscah]

This is the only game I have played where the main crew felt like they're stalkers than actual characters xD. Even irl, I could not stand a friend if there were always glued to me, even as a collective "friend group".

We spend, like, a couple of hours with them every few months, and they're doing their own stuff in between.

At a game level, we do a pretty huge chunk of our gameplay without interacting with them, and story-wise it's clear that they're not with the WoL at all times – it's just that the times when they are together are the times when the story is being told about them.

[Averax]

This is simply not true though; there are a lot of MMOs out there, all very different. Some have long term characters, some don’t.

Guildwars 1 (like 30 years ago), was a game where a core group of NPCs were essentially the story drivers that you went with to do whatever expansions. Some new ones came and went, but typically you adventured with them from start to finish, over like 4 expansion packs. They still exist somewhat in the current Guildwars 2.

Guildwars 2 also continues this tradition, generally having some NPCs carry over from expansion to expansion.

Even FF11, which tended to have more expansion specific characters than not, would often utilize NPCs across expansions, even mixing them up a la Avengers for finales.

Point being, it’s not really a trend either way, it just depends on the story the devs want to tell and whether that warrants keeping a stable of consistent NPCs.

Guild wars 2 did just release an expansion where all of our old friends split and started living their lives after the huge story arc culmination in the prior expansion. Now the PC is on a new adventure with one familiar face that we didn't spend much time with prior.

[Katish]

We spend, like, a couple of hours with them every few months, and they're doing their own stuff in between.

At a game level, we do a pretty huge chunk of our gameplay without interacting with them, and story-wise it's clear that they're not with the WoL at all times – it's just that the times when they are together are the times when the story is being told about them.

Unfortunately unsure if this is true, the passage of time =/= in game passage of time. We have no idea how much time is passing and it seems like it is relatively nearby i.e not months but maybe weeks. If it were months the twins would relatively be giraffes or heading that way, which does not fit the exact narrative. Game lore would say otherwise to "months..." It's strange that world changing events are happening so close, but it is what it is I guess.

[Iscah]

Unfortunately unsure if this is true, the passage of time =/= in game passage of time. We have no idea how much time is passing and it seems like it is relatively nearby i.e not months but maybe weeks.

Seeing your friends every few weeks still isn't "stalking" and being "glued" to you.

And the story is deliberately vague about time and not tracking it as it should be tracked. Sometimes they talk as if it really has been months since we last saw each other, but the game's artificial approach to time means that nobody has gotten any older.