SAM PVP: How are you supposed to play this class?

[Valence]

The 24k potency AoE is so small it's pitiful, much like the normal AoEs that with the netcode consistently miss anybody because they were elsewhere according to the server. For a long time before trying SAM I actually even assumed that the LB was a long line AoE from the start of the dash to the end (a bit like the gap closer). I think they should have made the LB like that.

[Jaydarksol]

I 1000% appreciate this point of view, my issue is that applying pressure, while nice makes the class incredibly dependent on a full team to be mediocre.

Slow LB charge makes the class difficult to duel with when every other class including a healer can nearly double the LB generation
Slow attacks, while satisfying aesthetically are all AoE based which make single target lackluster and feel boring on damage.

Our healing attack requires multiple enemies to be mediocre in comparison to their attack and how long it takes to come around to it.

0 Pull out means we are stuck in the fight, and as much as I do love this idea, without meaningful mitigation we are the easiest target to focus. Even adding the ability to leap back from our pve toolkit would do a LOT to help the SAM in a fight.

The class is far too dependent on two things (1) a healer, and (2) a team. The AoE aspect of it is incredible and unique, but a class should still have the ability to duel and have the tools it needs to be that unique role if that is what it was designed to be.

Any of the following would help SAM a LOT:

Hissatsu: Yaten, Attacking disengage

Put Chiten back on the 50% damage reduction.
or
Let stun be 3 seconds/AoE 2 seconds
Let Bind be 3 seconds

increase our 1-2-3- combo by 1k to bring it up to Reaper's basic attack #'s

LB Not limited by proximity, once you are marked you're marked
or
LB Generation increased (Be the executioner so people are pressured by knowing they are on a timelimit)

Double Okra's Healing when hitting a single target

[Mistress_Irika]

Honestly if I find myself in a situation where people aren't letting themselves get executed I go for a backline assassination attempt with the class. To be really petty about this I would choose a full hp target just to catch everyone off guard. I did come up with a burst specifically for that moment.

There's also executing those that are in guard with the LB. However, I personally don't go for that, because I think the interaction between the LB and the Guard ability is bugged.

[AnotherPerson]

There's also executing those that are in guard with the LB. However, I personally don't go for that, because I think the interaction between the LB and the Guard ability is bugged.

That's actually part of Samurai's strength - the effect is listed in the 3rd line of Samurai's LB. Similar to other LBs that affect the target through Guard (RPR/DNC/NIN/MNK) or MCH's Drill that ignores Guard, certain actions like Samurai's LB directly ignores the effect of Guard during calculation, but only for that attack.

Zantetsuken LB Effect:
1. Swiftly charges forward, dealing damage to target and all enemies nearby it with a potency of 24,000.
2. If target is afflicted with Kuzushi, deals damage equal to 100% of their maximum HP.
3. Ignores the effects of Guard when dealing damage.
4. The additional effect of Kuzushi cannot be applied to players riding machina and non-player combatants.
5. Can only be executed when the limit gauge is full.
6. Gauge Charge Time: 120s
7. Cannot be executed while bound.

[Valence]

I 1000% appreciate this point of view, my issue is that applying pressure, while nice makes the class incredibly dependent on a full team to be mediocre.

Slow LB charge makes the class difficult to duel with when every other class including a healer can nearly double the LB generation
Slow attacks, while satisfying aesthetically are all AoE based which make single target lackluster and feel boring on damage.

Our healing attack requires multiple enemies to be mediocre in comparison to their attack and how long it takes to come around to it.

0 Pull out means we are stuck in the fight, and as much as I do love this idea, without meaningful mitigation we are the easiest target to focus. Even adding the ability to leap back from our pve toolkit would do a LOT to help the SAM in a fight.

The class is far too dependent on two things (1) a healer, and (2) a team. The AoE aspect of it is incredible and unique, but a class should still have the ability to duel and have the tools it needs to be that unique role if that is what it was designed to be.

Any of the following would help SAM a LOT:

Hissatsu: Yaten, Attacking disengage

Put Chiten back on the 50% damage reduction.
or
Let stun be 3 seconds/AoE 2 seconds
Let Bind be 3 seconds

increase our 1-2-3- combo by 1k to bring it up to Reaper's basic attack #'s

LB Not limited by proximity, once you are marked you're marked
or
LB Generation increased (Be the executioner so people are pressured by knowing they are on a timelimit)

Double Okra's Healing when hitting a single target

I do think that you're missing an important part of the job, which is identical to PLD and MNK but better: you have an OGCD stun (OGCD being the main thing), which can be applied at will at any time on low HP or struggling targets. You have probably been infuriated when a good PLD or MNK manage to stun you at the worst moment? SAM can do that too, and SAM has the tools to almost instantly punish and deal damage with Midare and Namikiri, while MNK needs either to have PR already built up, or can just follow with Enlightenment, and PLD has... less potent damage tools. So not only you enable and secure a lot of kills that way, but you also have the tools to make sure the kill happen, which also works to your benefit when chasing people down (there is a reason dash into bind to burn a purify and then stun makes this class one of the best at chasing).

Then you have Chiten, while too short on duration to constitute a very potent defensive, can still soak more than ranged jobs can claim, and combined with Meikyo, you can also bait and burn CC while you soak damage. I feel that it shouldn't be underestimated, but it turns the class into a gamble, high risk high reward role. I do think that SAM has the tools to duel but not everything, and it needs to pick targets carefully.

That's actually part of Samurai's strength - the effect is listed in the 3rd line of Samurai's LB. Similar to other LBs that affect the target through Guard (RPR/DNC/NIN/MNK) or MCH's Drill that ignores Guard, certain actions like Samurai's LB directly ignores the effect of Guard during calculation, but only for that attack.

Zantetsuken LB Effect:
1. Swiftly charges forward, dealing damage to target and all enemies nearby it with a potency of 24,000.
2. If target is afflicted with Kuzushi, deals damage equal to 100% of their maximum HP.
3. Ignores the effects of Guard when dealing damage.
4. The additional effect of Kuzushi cannot be applied to players riding machina and non-player combatants.
5. Can only be executed when the limit gauge is full.
6. Gauge Charge Time: 120s
7. Cannot be executed while bound.

Note that the tooltip is a little crappy (ikr) because the LB will NOT go through guard if the target doesn't have the kuzushi debuff.

[Jaydarksol]

The stun holds for 2 seconds. and any meaningful damage we can provide is behind a 1.5 second cast time and the only one capable of it is Midare IF you prep it.
This could be my ignorance but i fail to see this as any sort of benefit. Sure 1 target every 20 seconds MIGHT be possible to kill in a team setting. nearly every other, if not every other Dps class can do it themselves.
This whole talk about "SAM can pressure" Mmmm, no they can't. In every encounter i face them or play as them, there is minimum pressure felt.

While some SAM can do well, this STRICLY a team deal. They are pretty impudent on their own and to be quite fair lack the defensive and offensive ability to be considered a real class in this game pvp wise. This is a far cry from what they have been in the past and If i am being honest. The rework to DRG should take a backstage to a rework to SAM

[Valence]

Other DPS classes cannot do it themselves, at least not the same way. There is a reason why OGCD stuns like PLD/MNK's or BRD's silence are deadly: they enable kills on targets that can be full MP because it takes a crapload of time to purify out of it first, then recuperate/guard, and it's usually too late if you get stunned low hp on skirmishes (and stunned full HP on full team bursts). Thing is, any class that has stuns on GCDs, are sacrificing a GCD to burst in exchange for their stun, which is a lot of alpha damage paid for it. But yes obviously there is many other ways to secure kills...

When it comes to pressure I think the class is alright. There is better pressure jobs (MNK, LB WAR, etc), and way worse jobs for it. Harassing backliners is very potent if they don't have allies peeling you off. The AoE pressure is pretty godlike, only surpassed by RPR for melees (or BLM for ranged).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the class is meta or anything, but I see samurais regularly in the top charts so I don't think it's that awful either in spite of some shortcomings. Maybe it's a personal take idk but I feel it's doing better than Ninja. And when compared to all jobs and not just melee dps, well... It's a melee DPS, which be essence makes it strong already. If anything it's the other melees that are too strong.

[sparroww]

Thats the neat part of sam, you're not suppose to play lol, you might have fun with it on frontline ig but thats it.

[hexxxx]

Here's a comprehensive guide to SAM in PvP. Cheers!

[Jaydarksol]

yo! hexx thank you for that!

I also wanted to add that i hadn't noticed Ogi Namikiri not activating shield in duels which is something I feel it should still be able to do. That in itself would go a long way to helping SAM as a duelist.