Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Supersnow845]

It’s hilarious how much they completely failed in every regard to understand how SGE would fit into the healer design space

They pumped it full of regens and flat potency healing then made its mitigation and shielding capacity weak as hell with the tradeoff that said mitigation is free unlike SCH that has to pay for most of it

This completely ignores the fact that people bring a shield healer for mitigation and not for more regens (which the regen healers already struggle to actually get use out of their regens)

It’s hilarious that at launch you had to burn Zoe and panhaima just to get an AOE shield that equaled spreadlo without any of SCH’s 3 inherent buffs, both of which are expensive CD’s you don’t want to burn on AOE GCD shields AND it has weaker mitigation than SCH as well

Honestly what was even their design philosophy on SGE

[rawker]

I might draw some flak for saying this but i think SCH has to be the more offensive healer as it started off as a dps class. Remove a good chunk of its oGCD healing to make room for more abilities that modify Adlo and Succor. Expand further on the pet. Make everything interact with one another.

[Aravell]

I might draw some flak for saying this but i think SCH has to be the more offensive healer as it started off as a dps class. Remove a good chunk of its oGCD healing to make room for more abilities that modify Adlo and Succor. Expand further on the pet. Make everything interact with one another.

While I also think that SCH could stand to have more modifier abilities to follow the job fantasy of a master tactician, I also think that SGE should be the one with the heaviest focus on damage buttons, mostly because they were advertised as such.

I think the old poison theme really fit SCH because a tactician would seek to debilitate enemies for a higher chance of victory. In my opinion, I think the amount of damage buttons a healer presses regularly should go, from highest to lowest:

SGE > SCH > WHM > AST

That said, even though I'd like AST to be more buff focused, I'd still like them to at least have 4-5 damage buttons they press regularly, not just 1 you press every 30 seconds and 1 you spam.

So SGE at the highest with 10-12 buttons with expanded Kardia interactions, and AST the lowest with 4-5 buttons and a better card system to keep them busy.

Edit: People may look at this and think "Wow, that's a lot of buttons to add", but we do have a fair amount of healing bloat that can be cut, I'm sure the space can be found for it.

[Supersnow845]

People seem to have such a weird obsession with how good damage neutral GCD heals are (pnuema macrocosmos etc) I really don’t know why they didn’t make all of SGE’s bloat heals into damage neutral spells that just do the heal effect anyway

Like ixochole could have been “attack enemy with potency of 330 and heal allies around your kardia target- potency 400, addersgall cost 1” and physis could have been “attack enemy with potency of 330 and spread kardia to all allies for the next 5 GCD’s”

It’s not like it would actually make SGE more in depth but it would certainly diversify the perception of the classes damage options for people who can’t see that pnuema is basically just dosis+600 potency heal

[Aravell]

People seem to have such a weird obsession with how good damage neutral GCD heals are (pnuema macrocosmos etc)

This kind of obsession with damage neutral heals will be the final nail in the healer coffin, I swear.

How can people have any fun when none of their decisions matter? Losing absolutely no damage by healing means you just toss out healing like candy, you can never be wrong, you can never make a bad decision, the only thing that can cause your party to wipe is if you don't press anything at all. That hardly seems fun to me.

Nothing losing you any damage would just make any decision you make as a healer pointless, because if you press one damage neutral button that doesn't fully cover the damage, you have another 15 to press for extra coverage.

[ty_taurus]

While I also think that SCH could stand to have more modifier abilities to follow the job fantasy of a master tactician, I also think that SGE should be the one with the heaviest focus on damage buttons, mostly because they were advertised as such.

I think the old poison theme really fit SCH because a tactician would seek to debilitate enemies for a higher chance of victory. In my opinion, I think the amount of damage buttons a healer presses regularly should go, from highest to lowest:

SGE > SCH > WHM > AST

That said, even though I'd like AST to be more buff focused, I'd still like them to at least have 4-5 damage buttons they press regularly, not just 1 you press every 30 seconds and 1 you spam.

So SGE at the highest with 10-12 buttons with expanded Kardia interactions, and AST the lowest with 4-5 buttons and a better card system to keep them busy.

Edit: People may look at this and think "Wow, that's a lot of buttons to add", but we do have a fair amount of healing bloat that can be cut, I'm sure the space can be found for it.

Suggestions I've proposed in the past have also been successful at expanding on Sage's DPS arsenal while having even less total hotbar buttons than they do now, mainly by taking advantage of Eukrasia as well as making Dyskrasia the opposite of Eukrasia--a tool that changes your DPS tools to become more effective.

Currently, Eukrasia makes Dosis turn into a more powerful attack in the form of a DOT, but that's weird because Eukrasia means a state of well-being. Rather than have every attack automatically trigger Kardia, making it effectively a permanent regen, I'd have spells not trigger Kardia by default, but Eukrasia adds effects to your attacks that trigger different forms of healing on your Kardia target. Meanwhile Dyskrasia is what turns your attacks into nastier, but more situational attacks. Like a DOT currently, or as I had it, a debuff that increased how frequently the target would receive critical hits from specifically your attacks and no one else's.

[Supersnow845]

This kind of obsession with damage neutral heals will be the final nail in the healer coffin, I swear.

How can people have any fun when none of their decisions matter? Losing absolutely no damage by healing means you just toss out healing like candy, you can never be wrong, you can never make a bad decision, the only thing that can cause your party to wipe is if you don't press anything at all. That hardly seems fun to me.

Nothing losing you any damage would just make any decision you make as a healer pointless, because if you press one damage neutral button that doesn't fully cover the damage, you have another 15 to press for extra coverage.

Which is honestly why I suggested it for SGE, because SGE is already that anyway just that it needs some weaving

It’s a dumb design but it’s what we have, at least it gives some visual flavour if literally nothing else

[rawker]

People seem to have such a weird obsession with how good damage neutral GCD heals are (pnuema macrocosmos etc) I really don’t know why they didn’t make all of SGE’s bloat heals into damage neutral spells that just do the heal effect anyway

Like ixochole could have been “attack enemy with potency of 330 and heal allies around your kardia target- potency 400, addersgall cost 1” and physis could have been “attack enemy with potency of 330 and spread kardia to all allies for the next 5 GCD’s”

It’s not like it would actually make SGE more in depth but it would certainly diversify the perception of the classes damage options for people who can’t see that pnuema is basically just dosis+600 potency heal

I like this. Making Kardia just a marker where your healing will burst out. SGE can also take away its shield altogether and be a pure healer but with lots of mitigation spells. All of its healing are oGCDs, consuming Addersgall. GCD offensive spells generate Addersgall. Addersting will be reserved for the big ones and to be used sparingly.

Imagine Panheima gives 30% mitigation to the entire party for the next 5 attacks. Well... if they gave WAR heals.. why not give healers tank cooldowns.

[Moqi]

This kind of obsession with damage neutral heals will be the final nail in the healer coffin, I swear.

How can people have any fun when none of their decisions matter? Losing absolutely no damage by healing means you just toss out healing like candy, you can never be wrong, you can never make a bad decision, the only thing that can cause your party to wipe is if you don't press anything at all. That hardly seems fun to me.

Nothing losing you any damage would just make any decision you make as a healer pointless, because if you press one damage neutral button that doesn't fully cover the damage, you have another 15 to press for extra coverage.

People have fun in different ways, shocking.

This game is all about DPS so it feels bad to have to lose DPS in order to heal. Any catch up mechanics to make heals DPS neutral is timed to timers or limited resources, it's a good compromise to be able to use heals, don't feel bad about it and try to optimize your healing during certain windows. Healers are the only ones who have to sacrifice DPS in order to do their job.

[ty_taurus]

People have fun in different ways, shocking.

This game is all about DPS so it feels bad to have to lose DPS in order to heal. Any catch up mechanics to make heals DPS neutral is timed to timers or limited resources, it's a good compromise to be able to use heals, don't feel bad about it and try to optimize your healing during certain windows. Healers are the only ones who have to sacrifice DPS in order to do their job.

I don't completely agree with the statement that it feels bad to lose DPS in order to heal. I think the current distain for GCD healing stems from a number of places: First, we have never actually gotten GCD heals like Medica II or Succor after level 50. Not a single expansion has given us anything that comes at the full cost of your DPS spells. Second is that outgoing damage does not increase between expansions, meaning all those extra heals we do get simply exist to take the place of GCD heals we would've used before. Third is that with every expansion upgrading the potency of our spammable attack spells, DPS uptime becomes gradually more and more important, meaning the damage we lose to healing is constantly increasing.

Put all this together, and what we have is a game that is, whether intentional or not, designed to be healed without those GCD heals. So any time you do use them or feel forced to use them, it feels like you're doing something wrong rather than doing something right. In other words, this game has fostered an environment that makes the actual act of healing feel like the wrong choice.