Yoshida gives update on the benchmark/character creator

[Scintilla]

This is a pretty big logical leap. The call for improved graphics is mainly because you can see individual pixels in the hairstyles and ground textures without trying very hard. (And because some things would be weirdly high rez like the qitana ravel weapons, adding further disparity.) It does not stem from a dislike of the art style or overall design, and has never been a request to drastically change the appearance of anything.

I would definitely agree that that does form a major part of the push for improved graphics. Just looking at some of the images posted in a recent thread shows the extent of current limitations, with the crystal exarch being the first to spring to mind. Aside from lighting adjustments and perhaps hands/feet, updating characters' appearances didn't carry the same weight for many as the environmental changes. That said, it still doesn't mean that such updates would be deemed unnecessary or unneeded purely because they weren't as high of a priority. I can't help but think that if we were to revert the characters to how they were while leaving the environment, lighting, and equipment with the new adjustments, what once would have appeared okay would look much more jarring and out-of-place now.

However, why they changed such features as Moon-Keeper fangs etc., I don't know. Aside from doing it to try to push realism (which has been received badly across most of the communities from what I hear), I can't think of any other reason for which they would consciously elect to do it, particularly after saying they would try to keep characters as close to their current appearance as possible. Unless it was an outcome of the adjustments, but for as many posts that I've seen suggesting the slight feature changes are unavoidable for technical reasons, I've seen an equal number saying that not to be the case.

[Nebty]

However, why they changed such features as Moon-Keeper fangs etc., I don't know. Aside from doing it to try to push realism (which has been received badly across most of the communities from what I hear), I can't think of any other reason for which they would consciously elect to do it, particularly after saying they would try to keep characters as close to their current appearance as possible. Unless it was an outcome of the adjustments, but for as many posts that I've seen suggesting the slight feature changes are unavoidable for technical reasons, I've seen an equal number saying that not to be the case.

The face/mouth sculpt issue is likely tied to:

1) Faces apparently having over 50 new bones now, which are going to introduce some rigging issues (I'm thinking mouth/facial expression bugs fall into this category).

2) The new facial animation workflow that involves having a standard head mesh and then morphing it into each different head to cut down on animation time. I think this is probably the reason for the keeper fang nerf because it's easier to do something like this when there are fewer differences, and Suncats don't have fangs. It's also probably responsible for the general homogenization of unique facial features (mouths either getting narrower, fuller, sudden appearance/removal of dimples, slimmer/rounder cheeks, etc).

The changes caused by #2 are among the biggest issues currently being vocalized by the playerbase and I think the feedback they've received will make them more likely to reincorporate those differences as much as they're able. Which, as a Face 2 Fem Au Ra player I'm really really hoping for (their unique mouth shape now looks way more like Face 1). Fingers crossed that keeper fangs make a return.

I'm also just generally worried about the quality of facial animations under the new system if it's this buggy only two months before release. Are we going to have Mass Effect Andromeda levels of "oh god what is my character's face doing???" with the new standardization? Already not a big fan of the creepy smile in the Dawntrail Benchmark, or the persistent duckface some characters seem to be getting.

[Scintilla]

The face/mouth sculpt issue is likely tied to:

1) Faces apparently having over 50 new bones now, which are going to introduce some rigging issues (I'm thinking mouth/facial expression bugs fall into this category).

2) The new facial animation workflow that involves having a standard head mesh and then morphing it into each different head to cut down on animation time. I think this is probably the reason for the keeper fang nerf because it's easier to do something like this when there are fewer differences, and Suncats don't have fangs. It's also probably responsible for the general homogenization of unique facial features (mouths either getting narrower, fuller, sudden appearance/removal of dimples, etc).

The changes caused by #2 are among the biggest issues currently being vocalized by the playerbase and I think the feedback they've received will make them more likely to reincorporate those differences as much as they're able. Which, as a Face 2 Fem Au Ra player I'm really really hoping for (their unique mouth shape now looks way more like Face 1). Fingers crossed that keeper fangs make a return.

I'm also just generally worried about the quality of facial animations under the new system if it's this buggy only two months before release. Are we going to have Mass Effect Andromeda levels of "oh god what is my character's face doing???" with the new standardization? Already not a big fan of the creepy smile in the Dawntrail Benchmark, or the persistent duckface some characters seem to be getting.

Thank you! I don't have any tech background and so my knowledge of this side of things comes entirely from what others post.

So these adjustments may have been made consciously, but more as a way of making animations easier in future. In which case, they would be able to change such features back again, albeit at the possible cost of flaws/difficulties in animation later down the line?

I didn't really mind the feature changes too much, but I also wouldn't be too bothered about a few strange animation appearances at the beginning. It might be a little immersion breaking in a key cutscene, but then there's bound to be a few problems to be ironed out early on. Unless I'm severely underestimating how long such a fix would take

[Nebty]

Thank you! I don't have any tech background and so my knowledge of this side of things comes entirely from what others post.

So these adjustments may have been made consciously, but more as a way of making animations easier in future. In which case, they would be able to change such features back again, albeit at the possible cost of flaws/difficulties in animation later down the line?

Or it may just be an issue of CBU3 putting out the Benchmark with a version of these head meshes that aren't 100% feature complete. It sounds like they've been continuing to tweak things but those changes haven't been incorporated yet. So, for example, maybe the current Keeper teeth mesh was based on one that was made for Seekers and they hadn't 100% finished modelling the fangs. Same with some of the mouth issues - they start from a base of one of the faces (probably the ones that ended up transferring over the easiest) and then tinker with the others until all of the differences carry over.

That's what I'm hoping, at least, because that just means they need more time to add in those small distinctions so every face mesh looks unique again.

[Rueby]

Already not a big fan of the creepy smile in the Dawntrail Benchmark, or the persistent duckface some characters seem to be getting.

If I'm being honest, we've been fawning over derplander looking so handsome and sexy in the trailer with a subtle/confident smirk.

What we got instead feels more in line with a Kubrick stare shot, sadly it's not helped by the shadows, eerie/creepy smile, dead serial killer eyes that have no light.

What I saw vs what first came to my mind.

[Roda]

If I'm being honest, we've been fawning over derplander looking so handsome and sexy in the trailer with a subtle/confident smirk.

What we got instead feels more in line with a Kubrick stare shot, sadly it's not helped by the shadows, eerie/creepy smile, dead serial killer eyes that have no light.

What I saw vs what first came to my mind.

i had to try something



I don't mind it as much, but I prefer to make characters that are kind of unhinged freaks?

[Taranok]

i had to try something
I don't mind it as much, but I prefer to make characters that are kind of unhinged freaks?

Yup, and this is why I'm so disappointed in face 4 femra going cutesy-utsy and princess as can be. My au ra is supposed to look fierce, darn it!

[Fawkes]

However, why they changed such features as Moon-Keeper fangs etc., I don't know. Aside from doing it to try to push realism (which has been received badly across most of the communities from what I hear), I can't think of any other reason for which they would consciously elect to do it, particularly after saying they would try to keep characters as close to their current appearance as possible. Unless it was an outcome of the adjustments, but for as many posts that I've seen suggesting the slight feature changes are unavoidable for technical reasons, I've seen an equal number saying that not to be the case.

Even after Yoshi-P's statement we don't really know what changes were on purpose. The Moonkeeper fangs could be related to the "mouth scaling" he mentioned. Or the mysterious "special data processes" issue. He also lists those things as "examples of issues", not a full list of all the problems, so even if Moonkeeper fangs aren't one of those they could be a different issue that wasn't listed. And even if Benchmark 2 comes out and the fangs are longer, we might not ever know for sure if it was a bug that got fixed or if it was changed back as a response to negative feedback.