Yoshida gives update on the benchmark/character creator

[OgruMogru]

Why? Clearly complaining about the benchmark making characters look like garbage was very useful feedback. If these "shut up and wait for release" posts were listened to, nothing would have been done about anything ever.

I hope this influences the way feedback is handled at large going forward [it won't] Because all sorts of smaller concerns/issues are always shut down by the "wait and see-ers" or hair-splitting or being told to just flat out quit because they were being critical and giving feedback - just look at the huge "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate" thread that is puttering along despite so much dismissal lmao. Now that this scenario has played out on an issue a lot more people care about I hope at least people see how obnoxious and unconstructive it is to just be shut down when you have concerns/criticisms. Likewise it's encouraging that if we can wrangle enough cohesion issues will be addressed.

[Ath192]

Of course I can do stuff, I have a blocklist and I'm using it right now. Trolls don't get fed.

Do me a favor and add me to it please if you haven’t already. I beg you.

It isn't about praise. It's people on opposite ends of an issue, both trying to be heard by the developers. I shouldn't have to say this because it is self-evident but the amount of people leaving feedback on anything absolutely works into the calculus of what the developers will do. Thus, if people are "leaving feedback" i.e. posting on a public forum which we know is where developers pull this info from, it behooves people of the opposite viewpoint to post oppositionally lest some change they themselves don't like get implemented.

Which is literally what, "they could just mind their business and simply post their opinion on the game" is. If you start a thread titled, "Delete the fat cat minion," you're going to get people who would like that to not happen showing up in that thread being like hey what is this, or no, fat cat is the best, or maybe even actually delete every minion except fat cat? To whom you don't just get to go, "your feedback is unrequested get out of my thread."

Or well, I guess you can say that but there's nothing compelling anyone to oblige.

Exactly, that last thing I want is for the devs to start rolling things back to worse versions because some people are asking for this, or worse yet, just give up on doing meaningful changes to the game because people can’t do anything other than spew hatred with their words. On the other hand, when there is respectful and logical feedback that is good.

My guess is the new benchmark is going to be better for the rational person, but it’s only going to bring more hate from the obsessed. But people need to let go the old graphics if this game is going to have a future.

[Erimar]

I don't post here, but I've been reading a lot recently and I've come to the conclusion that many people are self centred, selfish/self serving and inconsiderate of others. People are under the assumption that their character out of a dozen options with 4 choices in character creation, is their character and they know how they should look and that the game revolves around them, and don't even consider that there are many people who are indifferent or happy with the changes.

Let the team work and do the best possible job, yes, give objective constructive objective feedback. But stop it with this weird "I know how my characters look so they should change it to how I want it because I play this race", who made you boss of the *insert race here*? It's alright to be like "Oh I think these eyes look a little off", but consider that those "off eyes" may be an improvement to another player who plays your race configuration, or may be more aesthetically pleasing to people in general.

It's clear that people have fundamental disagreements on how this stuff should be handled, be self aware and know how characters "should" look is subjective and consider how the development team or player base how they "ought" to look. Consider what's best for you personally and consider what's best for the community and the game as a whole. Have a bit of give and take.

[Rudje]

You know the devs don't need you playing interception because of the mean people leaving feedback, right? That they can make their own choices in how to respond to people upset about having options removed in an already limited cc? And you don't need to hypocritically jump to calling someone upset about how their character is being changed selfish and inconsiderate in the process?

[Evergrey]

I don't post here, but I've been reading a lot recently and I've come to the conclusion that many people are self centred, selfish/self serving and inconsiderate of others. People are under the assumption that their character out of a dozen options with 4 choices in character creation, is their character and they know how they should look and that the game revolves around them, and don't even consider that there are many people who are indifferent or happy with the changes.

Let the team work and do the best possible job, yes, give objective constructive objective feedback. But stop it with this weird "I know how my characters look so they should change it to how I want it because I play this race", who made you boss of the *insert race here*? It's alright to be like "Oh I think these eyes look a little off", but consider that those "off eyes" may be an improvement to another player who plays your race configuration, or may be more aesthetically pleasing to people in general.

It's clear that people have fundamental disagreements on how this stuff should be handled, be self aware and know how characters "should" look is subjective and consider how the development team or player base how they "ought" to look. Consider what's best for you personally and consider what's best for the community and the game as a whole. Have a bit of give and take.

Now and then I come back to thinking that people started liking something because it was new and fresh.
But down the road people want to shape and mold it into their liking so that what they already like will become even better (to them).
But if whatever changes because people wants it to it stops being what they liked to begin with and looses its soul.
In this case, a game.
They liked the game because the developers vision of it fascinated them in one way or another.
But if the developers later on can't follow their own vision because people start demanding things to satisfy their own needs they're basically destroying what they once loved to begin with.

Feedback if good and all.
But some can't accept if their feedback isn't done as they want it and keeps demanding more.

[Evergrey]

And you don't need to hypocritically jump to calling someone upset about how their character is being changed selfish and inconsiderate in the process?

Everyones character is being changed but not everyone is complaining about it.
So it's not completely off the rails to call some upset about it.

[Rudje]

Everyones character is being changed but not everyone is complaining about it.
So it's not completely off the rails to call some upset about it.

If you actually read my post instead of "you hate waffles"ing it you would know that my objection was to calling the people upset about it selfish and inconsiderate and not noting that they are upset.

[Rudje]

If that was your intent, you did a damn poor job conveying it, and none of the rest of your post actually makes any sense because by the same measure anyone who wants the changes to go through without alterations is equally selfish and inconsiderate so there's no point to using the damn words.

Ina my case, the initial post I was responding to was a direct attack on anyone leaving negative feedback. That a not a case of kicked dogs holler, it's just someone being needlessly rude and getting away with it because the forum isn't moderated—posts like that are being actively deleted in other forums, which should be a good sign of what their impact actually is.

E: v if I have to read another sentence of someone being smug over not having an opinion I'm going to steal kneecaps so I'm going to stop here because this bullshit is infuriating v

[Evergrey]

If that was your intent, you did a damn poor job conveying it, and none of the rest of your post actually makes any sense because by the same measure anyone who wants the changes to go through without alterations is equally selfish and inconsiderate so there's no point to using the damn words.

Ina my case, the initial post I was responding to was a direct attack on anyone leaving negative feedback. That a not a case of kicked dogs holler, it's just someone being needlessly rude and getting away with it because the forum isn't moderated—posts like that are being actively deleted in other forums, which should be a good sign of what their impact actually is.

Indeed, both sides are equally selfish.
So instead of arguing whether or not SE should recall the changes or stick with them people should simply leave feedbacks and wait.
For in the end it's SE's decision and whatevery they choose to do people will have to adapt by it and move on, regardless what it may be.

Hard to tell which initial post you're refering to without it being quoted honestly.
So I can't add any comment regarding that.
Nontheless, following suit of what I just wrote, people shouldn't have to argue who's right or wrong in this, because neither side is.
If people want something to change they should just leave feedback about it.
Ofc, discussions regarding topics happens and people are free to share their own viewpoint about it.
But I've seen from both sides how the others point of view is wrong, and some, more rude comments than others, are being told so.
Neither side is free of guilt when it comes to being rude.

[Erimar]

I personally don't consider my character "my character". We have very limited character configurations. The consideration goes both ways, if people are going to keep demanding and arguing there is no winning. There will always be people who are upset about things.