Yoshida gives update on the benchmark/character creator

[Reinha]

Does SE plan on paying us? This crowdsourced quality assurance testing is going quite well for them.

I would make them a 2 hour powerpoint presentation for free if it meant that my character's quality was improved and not released in a whole new art style like what the World of Warcraft devs did to my nelf. Going by the quality and quantity of feedback people are giving it's clear many people want to be involved in the process. Not getting ignored is the payment.

[Skivvy]

Would you look at that. There was a minor change in shape. I'm glad you came around and understood. I'm proud.

When it comes to facial features, minor changes can make a huge difference in how the overall face looks. Take a look at real plastic surgery. A lot of people get very subtle procedures vs. going for something extreme, and yet even those minor tweaks make a difference. Try pulling your nose down just a tiny bit. Lift your brows at your hairline a smidge. Purse your lips, or maybe suck in your upper lip (RIP LALA)...see how that looks to you. Point being, when it comes to facial features, even small, delicate changes can have an impact.

So going back to the game now, we have characters whose eyeshapes/lash lines have changed, lips have changed shape, jawlines are puffier/softer, eyebrows are taking on new lines all together, etc. A lot of characters are getting hit with several of these changes in one go. Maybe the updated benchmark will "fix" things, maybe not. Will we all survive? Of course. But to be so blatantly dismissive of people pointing out and discussing actual changes...well, that's not a good look.

[Scintilla]

We will have to agree to disagree.

It seems we will

You call it "clearly quite emotional because of current change". But perhaps that's an interpretation, and one that overlooks the fact that people are not averse to change but have valid concerns regarding existing issues and bring up lots of sourced constructive criticism.

No, far from being 'my interpretation' that point comes directly from the complaints within forum (I have removed the names for the posters anonymity, but feel free to search them if you don't believe me):

I'd like to think these emotional responses stem out of a deep love for their character

It's honestly been an emotional experience for me.

I think a lot of the more elevated emotional response is also born from the fact that every live letter we were constantly reassured that things are not going to be drastically changed and that spirit would have special care taken for it and yet here we are.

You're not a weirdo, you do not need to touch grass and you most certainly aren't "taking it too seriously" just because you have grown attached to your virtual avatar.

Absolutely golden words. Thank you for this wisdom.

Including your own:

From a realistic business point though I do think it's a risky move to actively resculpt certain features that have always been there and that, in a character driven game, players have grown attached to

All including highly emotive words like 'love', 'attachment' and, of course, 'emotion' itself. There will be many more out there if you care to look.

You also call it "overblown responses". But perhaps that is an interpreation itself. Perhaps you perceive the responses as overblown when they might in fact be understandable frustration stemming from the issue that the sourced constuctive criticism is often dismissed and pushed into the "exaggerated, haven't tried this or that, rose-tinted glasses" corner.

There appears to be an element of frustration, no doubt. But should this frustration be taken out on other posters purely because they have tried to innocently offer some good-willed advice or kindly reassurance?

And even in the event that it was made in retort to a user expressing their opinion that they personally feel that changes are minimal and acceptable. That remains their opinion. As long as it is done politely, they have just as much right to voice it as you have to voice your thoughts that changes have been made.

The lighting thing is a good example. Several people have tried to point out that we don't think the current lighting is awesome and more flattering. It's not. What we tried to say is that there is congruence in our characters' features across all current lighting conditions, no matter how horrible, and that in the benchmark this congruence is not there. And some of that lack in congruence is not due to lighting but due to remodeling. Yet this explanation is mostly ignored and the much simpler narrative of "people are allergic to the lighting word" remains.

Again, as above. You share your thoughts and opinions. They share theirs. I don't see why this is an issue purely because their opinion doesn't meet with yours?

[Fayt1203]

Even after all these years PS3 still haunts us

[Sorrowen]

Full disclosure I did not ask for vacations but know some who did. I see the point in focusing on quality, that in and of itself is not bad and I can sort of agree when the "Quality" in question is not subjective. But I would say that everything matters and people should be considerate of others. We all knew how Yoshida took the last delay really hard and was extremely hesitant to give a date due to not being 100% sure. They take their announced release dates extremely seriously. Seeing the benchmark, I don't see anything that is so scuffed a multimillion dollar launch needs to get delayed. Perhaps some of it can be ongoing work if needed.

The fact of the matter is that the PLAYERS conscious decision to take time off IRL things for a video game is NOT the devs problems. I know very well that CBU3 takes their work very seriously and that the push back on EnW release was devastating to them, but that was due to a global pandemic that was killing people and making it dangerous to work, not to mention Soken's fight with cancer. These issues are not comparable to what we're discussing right now.

They have allotted themselves the amount of time they believe they need to fix any major and/or minor issues that the new character creator has caused in this space. Objectively this means they have an established team just focused on this and reading feedback. The dev team has put this two month period in place just for this reason, they're working on it as we prattle on. It's even crazy that they are making an entirely new benchmark for us to toy with to offer even more feedback because they cherish it. This is the time they think they need, so I really don't feel like they are rushing anything.

[CVXIV]

I am glad that they are listening to the feedback and will be making updates to the character creator's environments and lighting.
I was already pleased with how my character looked, so I wonder what these changes will do.

It's doubtful that it'll happen with the update but I would like to see them expand the character creator further.

[4clubbedace]

I doubt it. Yoshida says a lot of the issues that people have are a result of them not implementing the shaders in the benchmark properly, while they are implemented internally, and a lot of the character faces and textures are outdated and have already been changed to reflect what people are more used to. Seems the only real things they are working to fix right now are some visual oddities like the neck seam or hair being a little weird.

vertical slices are normally done months in advanced, so id be unsurprised that the stuff in the bm was just unfinished. the neck seem and fangsin particular.

[Neoyoshi]

Even after all these years PS3 still haunts us

^This, haha. Freaking PS3 graphics pipeline and spaghetti code likely haunts the dreams of the devs on a regular basis.

[Rudje]

How about you ALL just wait for release to see and stop with the typical general forum diatribes. I come here rarely now given just about everything new receives the typical it sucks receptions.

The benchmark was literally made in part to receive feedback, waiting was not going to help, especially since someone trying to see what the new look is was getting completely wrong information based on what they're changing in the post.

[MuraBoy]

Just stop arguing amongst yourselves and keep posting specific, constructive feedback about changes to the shape of eyes, noses and lips. Ignore anyone who tells you to stop or says its fine.

Well said, my friend