Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Nizzi]

I'm honestly half expecting a stealth full rework of SCH to make it as braindead easy as SMN, because the healing side of the kit still requires minimal brainpower.

Mostly because Yoshi P said before EW launch that they don't know what else to add to SCH anymore.

I think the removal of Summon Selene is a good idea of what they have planned for SCH in 7.0. 1-2 new buttons and the rest will be upgrades via traits, just like in Endwalker. Otherwise I cannot figure out why they would've bothered removing Selene's button mid expac and adding faerie glamour when they could've waited until DT and touted it as a new feature for SCH that was part of the rework. (Or you're right and this was a rework feature that got pushed live ahead of the rework like one of the DRG changes?)

I remember going into Endwalker Yoshi-P gave an interview saying that removing buttons each expansion from healers was incredibly hard compared to the Tanks or DPS jobs because of how many of the healing buttons are situational, and that they weren't really sure which ones they could remove without "causing issues." We can all probably point to things like Cure I, Physick, etc but it seems very much like an issue they just don't want to tackle and keep shoving off until they plan to do total overhauls to the game, and based on his statements about how they're going to look at jobs after level 100, I think its somewhat safe to say that this is just Scholar for the next few years.

I expect AST to still have things like Synastry and Enhanced Benefic come 7.0 because they've survived this long and SE is deathly frightened over the idea that 10+ year old min ilvl coils might not be possible or something

As an aside I wouldn't be surprised if they removed Aetherflow as a button and made Energy Drain function like SMN's Energy Drain as a way to consolidate buttons and remove skill ceiling from SCH's kit. Gets rid of Yoshida not liking SCHs using Aetherflow for damage over healing too while keeping the 'core' of using it on CD for MP and stacks. Damage buttons are always what they look at first with healers when they want to get rid of something lmao

[ForsakenRoe]

For a moment, I thought I saw a post in this thread that was nothing but fifteen 1s, and I was like:

• If that's to imply that healers get a sub-2 second GCD, that could be interesting, maybe?
• If that's to imply that we lose our poor, refresh-every-30 seconds DoT, that would be... unfortunate.

Probably mine, it's because there's a character limit and I was going to post a heck of a lot more than 3000 characters. So I posted a filler post of '11111111111', then edited it to the actual text I intended, guess you might have caught it right as I had posted it but before I had edited it?

Might want to go look at the post again (if you've not already), because I am not in the habit of asking for/suggesting such bland gameplay

[Supersnow845]

Square needs to stop being so scared of cutting bloated buttons because it may unbalance x or y content especially since they don’t seem to care about it for literally any other role in the game

Oh yeah sure we can’t make cure 1 become cure 2 because you actually rely on freecure in coils for mana management or synastry has niche cases in healing BJ/CC but sure SMN can do 20% more damage than any other DPS in the 70 ultimates despite having a 1 button rotation and WAR does more damage than half the actual DPS and it also had the best tank kit at level 70

WHM- freecure needs to go, tetra can go, bension can go, medica 2 either needs to be given a CD or just delete medica 1
AST- critfic needs to go, synastry can go, minor arcana can go, astrodyne can go, intersection can go, exaltation can go, neutral sect should be nerfed
SGE- crit diagnosis can go, ixochole can go, soteria can go, taurochole can go, panhaima and holos can be nerfed
SCH- blessing can go, chain can go, physick can go, protraction can be baked into other buttons

[ASkellington]

Square needs to stop being so scared of cutting bloated buttons because it may unbalance x or y content especially since they don’t seem to care about it for literally any other role in the game

Oh yeah sure we can’t make cure 1 become cure 2 because you actually rely on freecure in coils for mana management or synastry has niche cases in healing BJ/CC but sure SMN can do 20% more damage than any other DPS in the 70 ultimates despite having a 1 button rotation and WAR does more damage than half the actual DPS and it also had the best tank kit at level 70

WHM- freecure needs to go, tetra can go, bension can go, medica 2 either needs to be given a CD or just delete medica 1
AST- critfic needs to go, synastry can go, minor arcana can go, astrodyne can go, intersection can go, exaltation can go, neutral sect should be nerfed
SGE- crit diagnosis can go, ixochole can go, soteria can go, taurochole can go, panhaima and holos can be nerfed
SCH- blessing can go, chain can go, physick can go, protraction can be baked into other buttons

I disagree. Enhanced Benefic, Minor Arcana and Intersection sure, but Synastry and Exaltation can stay. The latter because it at least fits thematically with AST being a delayed healer. Synastry just needs to be updated to work with A. Benefic's regen, ED, and Exaltation. If we get more dual tank busters I can see it being used with that.

Neutral Sect is a weird spot. I don't want it. You can argue the idea it can replace old Nocturnal Sect and for its duration all of ASTs regens become shields (where Collective loses its mitigation unless its under Neutral and Exaltation does the same, only being a delayed heal but under Neutral becoming the new CI or conversely keeping CI and giving it the Diurnal/Nocturnal split here) but honestly, I'd rather have Nocturnal back and be a toggle in battle like PvP RDM's Black/White stance.

All that said, you can pretty much delete all of AST's 70+ skills and it'd be fine. Point is, rather than removing everything I'd like to see some parts of the kit have cohesion with other parts.

[Deceptus]

WHM- freecure needs to go, tetra can go, bension can go, medica 2 either needs to be given a CD or just delete medica 1
AST- critfic needs to go, synastry can go, minor arcana can go, astrodyne can go, intersection can go, exaltation can go, neutral sect should be nerfed
SGE- crit diagnosis can go, ixochole can go, soteria can go, taurochole can go, panhaima and holos can be nerfed
SCH- blessing can go, chain can go, physick can go, protraction can be baked into other buttons

Respectfully a lot of these are simply bad ideas to remove.

WHM: Yes, Cure 1 and medica 1 need to go. That's pretty obvious. They should trait Cure 1 > Cure 2 / Medica > Cure 3 (keep the Medica range). Both Tetra and Benison have valid uses (Snap heals, tank busters). Benison stacks with SCH Adlo

SCH in general needs a lot of work. They basically took any good idea and gave them to sage in Endwalker. Mostly in the "2 effects, 1 button" category. Right now, they need something better AOE wise and I think energy drain is the easiest to do since they're not giving back bane. Put it at 350 potency with a 50% Aoe dropoff (After the first hits for 180 each. But they definitely need to figure something out about all those fairy buttons because Sage just does every single one of them better and they're baked into other buttons. Also after playing sage, Adlo REALLY needs it's cast time reduced or eliminated.

SGE As of right now the only "bad" button is Pepsis, but they have no real identity as a "Shield healer". So many of their "shields" are just weak. For example: Taurochloe. It has a full heal and then a damage reduction. Why not have that heal be a shield? Would be a great tank buster button. Panhaima is good for aoe bleeds.

AST I'm terrible at but I know some of their buttons can be easily combined and a few just don't need to be there (undraw)

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I think keeping Adlo at 2.00s cast time is fine due to the fact that we are able to consistently Critlo spread that shield whereas SGE would have to Zoe their E.Prog and burn other resources to match that same monstrosity of a party shield on top of having 0 reason of having clone 'differential diagnosis' tacked on it.

I don't want to become anymore like SGE or having the identity of "Better SGE".

[Supersnow845]

Respectfully a lot of these are simply bad ideas to remove.

WHM: Yes, Cure 1 and medica 1 need to go. That's pretty obvious. They should trait Cure 1 > Cure 2 / Medica > Cure 3 (keep the Medica range). Both Tetra and Benison have valid uses (Snap heals, tank busters). Benison stacks with SCH Adlo

SCH in general needs a lot of work. They basically took any good idea and gave them to sage in Endwalker. Mostly in the "2 effects, 1 button" category. Right now, they need something better AOE wise and I think energy drain is the easiest to do since they're not giving back bane. Put it at 350 potency with a 50% Aoe dropoff (After the first hits for 180 each. But they definitely need to figure something out about all those fairy buttons because Sage just does every single one of them better and they're baked into other buttons. Also after playing sage, Adlo REALLY needs it's cast time reduced or eliminated.

SGE As of right now the only "bad" button is Pepsis, but they have no real identity as a "Shield healer". So many of their "shields" are just weak. For example: Taurochloe. It has a full heal and then a damage reduction. Why not have that heal be a shield? Would be a great tank buster button. Panhaima is good for aoe bleeds.

AST I'm terrible at but I know some of their buttons can be easily combined and a few just don't need to be there (undraw)

My entire point is that you can come up with niche edge cases for every healing button in the game, that doesn’t actually justify their existence, for example you can justify Pepsis by saying that if the attack only partially cracks the shield (say ifrit in UWU) then you can still Pepsis for the full heal. It is a use case but it doesn’t justify its button slot. Something like tetra is almost exactly the same, like sure it is “faster” than solace, but solace actually justifies its place in the kit because it works with the gauge and builds towards misery

Trying to retain buttons for the sole propose of the fact you can invent niche uses for them is exactly how we ended up in this situation

Also side note I’m trying to figure out which buttons you think SGE is doing better than SCH considering that SCH’s buttons are better in just about every circumstance, you just have to press more than one; which really isn’t a downside in my eyes

[Mortex]

My entire point is that you can come up with niche edge cases for every healing button in the game, that doesn’t actually justify their existence, for example you can justify Pepsis by saying that if the attack only partially cracks the shield (say ifrit in UWU) then you can still Pepsis for the full heal. It is a use case but it doesn’t justify its button slot. Something like tetra is almost exactly the same, like sure it is “faster” than solace, but solace actually justifies its place in the kit because it works with the gauge and builds towards misery

Trying to retain buttons for the sole propose of the fact you can invent niche uses for them is exactly how we ended up in this situation

Also side note I’m trying to figure out which buttons you think SGE is doing better than SCH considering that SCH’s buttons are better in just about every circumstance, you just have to press more than one; which really isn’t a downside in my eyes

I do argue Sch and sgn bubbles serve way different situations. Sgn bubble can be used for all and every mechs while sch bubble has a even after the range increase some range problems. (ofc it lasts 5 seconds longer because of coding). Also having the options for giving shields for the party or a single target in a movement situation is still a massive gain because we both now trusting the fairy will lead 80 % fo the time to a dead person. Plus Sgn has no dilemma with energy drain or aoe heals/bubble. Also in comparison i find sch just clunky. Like jumping through 500 hoops for almost the same dmg and healing as sgn is the same problem astro vs whm have. Why play astro and playing piano when whm does the same with no downside and way more relaxed gameplay.

[Supersnow845]

I do argue Sch and sgn bubbles serve way different situations. Sgn bubble can be used for all and every mechs while sch bubble has a even after the range increase some range problems. (ofc it lasts 5 seconds longer because of coding). Also having the options for giving shields for the party or a single target in a movement situation is still a massive gain because we both now trusting the fairy will lead 80 % fo the time to a dead person. Plus Sgn has no dilemma with energy drain or aoe heals/bubble. Also in comparison i find sch just clunky. Like jumping through 500 hoops for almost the same dmg and healing as sgn is the same problem astro vs whm have. Why play astro and playing piano when whm does the same with no downside and way more relaxed gameplay.

Because unlike WHM VS AST SGE VS SCH SCH wins in almost every category, higher damage, better shields, more mitigation, better utility

Sure you jump through more hoops but it’s better because of it

[Aravell]

It's really wild to me that people still consider the choice of 'Energy Drain vs Indom/Soil' to be a dilemma when Energy Drain is just a pathetic 100 potency.