XIV EW Job-Gameplay is Terrible... Why?

[strawberrycake]

It turns a bad case of simplicity into something similarly simple, so yes, in vacuum, it dumbs it down even further (kinda feels like subtracting from a null quantity already to me tbh so not completely convinced about the dumbing down part), but besides it, frees up at least 2 or 3 hotbar slots for something else. Something else and new by definition would add more to the job. Will it be diverse and intricate enough? Onus is on the devs to make it so.

I'm a little confused at the will to defend combos (that don't branch or proc) like if it was something actually valuable we want to keep, even at the cost of freeing more room for other things.

Because it's a skill to do said combos. You can already add more in, the combos being one button doesnt make it suddenly possible. Also if you're not playing content that makes you actually use your entire kit, thats a content specific issue and not a overall game issue. In Savage and Ultimate you have to use all those buttons and it's currently not hard to even do so. If you did add in anything New, it's still the underlying math thats the issue, not how it's executed. Because when we take a look at the math of the 2 min meta, it forces everything into ONE window, thats why is all feels samey, and boring, and simple, there is no theory crafting outside of who does what when, you can plan an entire fight down to the T, and most fights are now identical.

So the issue is simplicity right now, isn't from mechanical execution, thats just a symptom, it's from the math forcing us all into one space and there no room for agency and diversity. making it all one button doesn;t take us out of the 2 min window, all Cool downs must be used there, tanks will still have to use AOE mit or Reprisal At the same spots, healers will still have to hold their big damage button, for the 2 min, GCD healing will still be a no go. Nothing would change and it all just be more boring.

[Oizen]

I would say opt in would be the way to go for that sort of system. I cant imagine some combo button would feel good at all on a proc based job like Dancer.

But when we're talking mind-numbing tank 123 spam I can't say I'd care that much.

[OgruMogru]

Really hope they pull something out of the bag for the battle system in DT. Seeing as we're going to the homeland of Blu Mage I'd like us to be able to choose 2 Blu spells to supplement the kits of our actual combat classes, like an expansion of our cross class skills. This way if, we're so inclined, we can add a few more offensive spells to healer kits, an extra dot, a gap closer, or a personal buff like moonflute or the magic hammer attack that returns MP. The limited number of slots means we'd be making mini builds or skill-trees [skill-shrubs more like] that wouldn't be too disruptive to role identity but would still give us some much needed feeling of control and variety.

[Colt47]

The game doesn't really know where it wants to be at all right now. They got over-bloated grinding happening everywhere with crafting and also have savage content which requires all that extra work, while simplifying jobs so that more people are going to go into the supposedly harder content. It's like having to pay to get punched in the face for hours. There is no end game or plan for crafting other than to be a source of gear for savage at this point, since housing gear can be gained indirectly through other means like the online store, various side content like beast tribes, and just general provisioners. That and the crafters have to craft better crafting gear to craft better raiding gear, which requires farming scrips for even and odd grade materia because the spirit bond rate is awful, and then they often say "oh this is just fine. We have macros!"

Buddy, pal, you are MAKING a MACRO to avoid the minigame that the developers intentionally put IN THE GAME because it is supposed to make it "interesting and fun". If I'm making a macro that is going to avoid doing the task that makes it interesting and fun, there is something wrong here.

Second, the oversimplification of the jobs is largely to facilitate moving into harder content. So now there is even more pressure for people to go grind the craft system, which by the way has a lot of grinding involved and is surprisingly time consuming due to the gathering half requirements, to make gear, food, and other items. Additionally, crafting is the only way to gain access to pentamelding, which is needed on the gear. So because of this, a raider has to either both pay for gear and pay for pentameld, or they level a craft job to penta meld and then buy gear.

By the way, that raider also has to basically do roulettes for money or run map runs on off days because he has no source of income from their main pursuit. They are literally gobbling up goods being crafted and consuming a lot of gil in repairs. This is why the Gil problem is happening because SE has to give a ton of easy ways to gain gil that exceeds the costs of dying hundreds of times and upgrading gear every season. If someone stops playing right after beating a tier, they aren't losing money but they aren't gaining money either if they intend to play in the next. This is probably the main reason outside of burnout that people do not do every tier in an expansion. FYI, I did every tier in the expansion this time around just to get a feel for this insanity.

[ZiraZ]

If anything crafting needs to make a comeback now that we have 1 whole week to craft gear, which is something that can be done low effort in like 1 hour max right now.
I was actually gonna suggest they turn all crafted gear into expert synced down crafts. Max difficulty Expert but with full Expert conditions of course, so no macros allowed for maximum crafting fun.

[strawberrycake]

All this

I mean I've been raid leading for years in XIV and raiding isn't that intense baseline, it depends on the group and how YOU want to engage. I run my raiders p chill, one Expert a day will get you all you need, and we run blind, and we have more then enough without crafted gear. And we usually chilled after clearing since people in the group didn;t care for ults, people only got crafted if they liked the way it looked and we were fine going into the next tier. And I really wanna say this, it sounds and comes off like this games baseline is a lot for you personally. And it sounds like you either elected to do all that or your raid lead ran ya'll p hard. But none of that is needed to clear.(been actively raiding since Coils) But XIV is known as the retirement home of MMOs for a reason.

If you know someone whos burnt out after these tiers then they were being ran p hard or just have low tolerance for stress baseline. And thats not me trying to sound mean, it just that all of that sounds like a lot of exaggeration and choices that didn't mesh well with you.

[Colt47]

I mean I've been raid leading for years in XIV and raiding isn't that intense baseline, it depends on the group and how YOU want to engage. I run my raiders p chill, one Expert a day will get you all you need, and we run blind, and we have more then enough without crafted gear. And we usually chilled after clearing since people in the group didn;t care for ults, people only got crafted if they liked the way it looked and we were fine going into the next tier. And I really wanna say this, it sounds and comes off like this games baseline is a lot for you personally. And it sounds like you either elected to do all that or your raid lead ran ya'll p hard. But none of that is needed to clear.(been actively raiding since Coils) But XIV is known as the retirement home of MMOs for a reason.

If you know someone who's burnt out after these tiers then they were being ran p hard or just have low tolerance for stress baseline. And that's not me trying to sound mean, it just that all of that sounds like a lot of exaggeration and choices that didn't mesh well with you.

I think you missed the point entirely. I'm saying they have multiple barriers to entry on Savage just from the standpoint of crafting. Not sure if people forgot, but the first tier was literally people scrambling to get crafting up so they could capitalize on week 1 and those people had to go full time crafting loco to do it (I know because several people in both my FC and various LS's all were involved) and that was with a one week head start. And the thing is that yes, back before DC travel and Aether determined the pacing it was possible to go more slowly or not care, but because of DC travel now it's just everyone has to go to aether, everyone has to deal with the same limited time wave of savage raiding that dies out quick and then leaves people struggling. And this isn't even getting into statics because it turned into nothing but people breaking up left and right once we hit the second tier and third tier.

I'm tired of people tossing others out of parties because they aren't learning fast enough, when the guy doing the tossing is using assistive technology like Cactbot. I'm tired of freaking ACT parse groups. Yoshi P. made a statement saying that if people are going to use assistive technology to make the savage fights easier, then it isn't worth making the content. There is literal rampant proof that people are using assistive technology to complete the content more quickly and it is influencing clear rates as well as how people behave or act to others, because those without those technologies are at a disadvantage just by choosing not to use them. And a lot of people don't even have an option since they play on console.

[ZiraZ]

I think you missed the point entirely. I'm saying they have multiple barriers to entry on Savage just from the standpoint of crafting. Not sure if people forgot, but the first tier was literally people scrambling to get crafting up so they could capitalize on week 1 and those people had to go full time crafting loco to do it (I know because several people in both my FC and various LS's all were involved) and that was with a one week head start. And the thing is that yes, back before DC travel and Aether determined the pacing it was possible to go more slowly or not care, but because of DC travel now it's just everyone has to go to aether, everyone has to deal with the same limited time wave of savage raiding that dies out quick and then leaves people struggling. And this isn't even getting into statics because it turned into nothing but people breaking up left and right once we hit the second tier and third tier.

I'm tired of people tossing others out of parties because they aren't learning fast enough, when the guy doing the tossing is using assistive technology like Cactbot. I'm tired of freaking ACT parse groups. Yoshi P. made a statement saying that if people are going to use assistive technology to make the savage fights easier, then it isn't worth making the content. There is literal rampant proof that people are using assistive technology to complete the content more quickly and it is influencing clear rates as well as how people behave or act to others, because those without those technologies are at a disadvantage just by choosing not to use them. And a lot of people don't even have an option since they play on console.

Crafting and leveling crafting is already a joke and I want more not less.
The 1 week head-start already lowers the price of a full set/materials to insignificant and irrelevant amounts of gil.
Even then, if someone has trouble with crafted gear and gil then, Try playing the game? I don't even know what to say this is the biggest nonproblem I've read in 27 pages. Gil is a plenty just by logging in.
No sense with removing yet another aspect of the game just so raidloggers can raidlog even more.
I just don't buy it for a second people had to scramble to craft gear in Endwalker.
And lastly, Crafted gear is not a barrier of entry.

[strawberrycake]

I think you missed the point entirely. I'm saying they have multiple barriers to entry on Savage just from the standpoint of crafting. Not sure if people forgot, but the first tier was literally people scrambling to get crafting up so they could capitalize on week 1 and those people had to go full time crafting loco to do it (I know because several people in both my FC and various LS's all were involved) and that was with a one week head start. And the thing is that yes, back before DC travel and Aether determined the pacing it was possible to go more slowly or not care, but because of DC travel now it's just everyone has to go to aether, everyone has to deal with the same limited time wave of savage raiding that dies out quick and then leaves people struggling. And this isn't even getting into statics because it turned into nothing but people breaking up left and right once we hit the second tier and third tier.

I'm tired of people tossing others out of parties because they aren't learning fast enough, when the guy doing the tossing is using assistive technology like Cactbot. I'm tired of freaking ACT parse groups. Yoshi P. made a statement saying that if people are going to use assistive technology to make the savage fights easier, then it isn't worth making the content. There is literal rampant proof that people are using assistive technology to complete the content more quickly and it is influencing clear rates as well as how people behave or act to others, because those without those technologies are at a disadvantage just by choosing not to use them. And a lot of people don't even have an option since they play on console.

The only barrier to entry is doing normal and your ability to learn, I've taught plenty of people savage, and it's not hard to do, IF people are willing to learn. Second, crafting isn't needed at all, and I never encourage my raiders to use it if they don't wanna, I just tell them to buy food and pots which is cheap af if you do rouls and I provide them if need be since Idm being helpful. And as for Aether determining the pacing, thats bs, as you can make your own PF with your own rules, I encourage people to do that more often, also network, this is a social game after all.

And as for tools, a tool is a tool, it does nothing but present information, what people do with that information is another thing, and sad to say it but yes, if I see a person who is keeping my party down I have the right to remove them, and so does everyone else, again make your own PF or join a static. Making your own static/PF, with your own rules aleviates ALL of that.

[Raikai]

Combo compression has the merit to leave room to introduce more abilities and things to bloated toolkits. While they can definitely make toolkits more engaging (they have been in the past after all), it's still a good solution not to have half the toolbar dedicated to a single combo. Combos are dumb to begin with anyway, especially if they're not branching or proccing.

Now, if SE is actually interested into shifting the balance back onto job intricacy a little, I'm not exactly on copium.

I agree. Combo compression is good for the game if they are able to use the vacant keys to introduce more complexity, preferably with other actions that interact with the compressed combo.

To me, the only reason combos could exist as separate keys are in the case of the branching ones, because that's the actual complexity of the system. A common 1-2-3 doesn't put your brain and decision making to work, it's just a test of your muscle memory.