Hot Take: The MSQ grind is too long and its harmful to expanding friend groups.

[For_The_Forsaken]

Bad take. Maybe you believe that the main story quest is the main content in this mmorpg, but that's just your opinion, and it's wrong. The more accurate perception is that the end-game dungeons/raiding/pvp/gil-making are the content. This is true for most, if not all mmorpg, and the uniquely long msq of ffxiv does not change that. It adds to it (or in the case of the original post, detracts).

[Carin-Eri]

Bad take. Maybe you believe that the main story quest is the main content in this mmorpg, but that's just your opinion, and it's wrong. The more accurate perception is that the end-game dungeons/raiding/pvp/gil-making are the content. This is true for most, if not all mmorpg, and the uniquely long msq of ffxiv does not change that. It adds to it (or in the case of the original post, detracts).

[MistakeNot]

Bad take. Maybe you believe that the main story quest is the main content in this mmorpg, but that's just your opinion, and it's wrong. The more accurate perception is that the end-game dungeons/raiding/pvp/gil-making are the content. This is true for most, if not all mmorpg, and the uniquely long msq of ffxiv does not change that. It adds to it (or in the case of the original post, detracts).

Well, that's just your opinion, and it's wrong.

End-game is where the game ends, and the gear-grind begins. It is a boring, pointless, part of the game and is best skipped since all the gear you grinded so much for will be nearly worthless once the next expansion hits, and there is little reason except gear to grind them.
The stories (both main story quest, and various side quests) are the fun parts of the game, and the only parts worth doing in themselves.

The right number of times to run any dungeon or raid is once, for the story.

Running end-game dungeons and raids can be fun if you do it with friends, but it is the friends that make it fun, not the dungeons.

[LianaThorne]

Well, that's just your opinion, and it's wrong.

End-game is where the game ends, and the gear-grind begins. It is a boring, pointless, part of the game and is best skipped since all the gear you grinded so much for will be nearly worthless once the next expansion hits, and there is little reason except gear to grind them.
The stories (both main story quest, and various side quests) are the fun parts of the game, and the only parts worth doing in themselves.

The right number of times to run any dungeon or raid is once, for the story.

Running end-game dungeons and raids can be fun if you do it with friends, but it is the friends that make it fun, not the dungeons.

Personally I think both points are valid, just depends on the type of person you are. I know plenty of people in the game that want nothing to do with MSQ and are perfectly happy just rushing through it to hit end-game raiding, since to them that's the reason they want to play. I also know plenty of people who think MSQ is mandatory to even enjoy the game at all and that people who raid will get bored and leave after a month, since MSQ is the reason they want to play.

I think MSQ enhances the experience but I don't think it's mandatory to fully enjoy the game. I also don't think rushing through to end-game makes you a great player or "invested" in the world, but I know some are able to adjust well and have found other communities they enjoy being in (hunts, achievement hunting, etc.).

The argument of people making it better is valid as well, although I also know of some who are fully solo and also find it a fulfilling experience.

People can play the game however they want imo, it doesn't break my bones if someone doesn't know every single lore detail and only cares about parsing ultimates. It also doesn't break my bones if someone wants to buy every copy of Encylopedia Eorzea and redo MSQ 2+ times because the lore is that important to them. I just think it reaches a potentially toxic level when either side tries to make it out like their way is the correct way because it's really just a matter of preference and following what matters to you. I'd hope everyone would be secure enough in their enjoyment of something that someone else not enjoying it wouldn't affect that lol, cause it really shouldn't.

[kaynide]

I think at the end of the day, as long as people are playing without making problems for others/harassing/trolling, there is no reason for anyone to say “your fun is wrong!”.

I still believe it’s kinda a waste to skip MSQ because the endgame is over and done with in a month or two…I’d probably recommend entirely different games if they only wanted to do endgame stuff to be honest, but you do you.

I’m a MSQ player and haven’t touched raids outside of low manning/goofing off with friends, so I don’t understand the appeal, but I also get the concept of wanting to do what you want as soon as possible and not doing the stuff you hate.

Like imagine having to wait in line and then ride like 20 kiddy rides at Disneyland before you even got the option to ride Tower of Terror. I get that. I’d hate that.

Ideally, if SE was kind they would eventually do a TL;dr of 2.x-6.x in the journal thing in our inn rooms with a heavy “hey understand you decided to skip so if stuff doesn’t make sense later that’s on you…anyway, enjoy!” Most anime/dramas do that about every season, so why not?

They can sell future story skips once 8.x and 9.x come out, with 7.0 being a possible future “start” point.

[Supersnow845]

Well, that's just your opinion, and it's wrong.

End-game is where the game ends, and the gear-grind begins. It is a boring, pointless, part of the game and is best skipped since all the gear you grinded so much for will be nearly worthless once the next expansion hits, and there is little reason except gear to grind them.
The stories (both main story quest, and various side quests) are the fun parts of the game, and the only parts worth doing in themselves.

The right number of times to run any dungeon or raid is once, for the story.

Running end-game dungeons and raids can be fun if you do it with friends, but it is the friends that make it fun, not the dungeons.

So basically you want a single player story focused RPG

Not exactly wrong as an opinion but why ask for this design in an MMO

[Gordita]

I have like a million alts (and counting) and I don't buy skips. Ok maybe I bought like 2-3, but that's like less than 10% of my chars. The msq is designed to waste time. It's so plain to see, that it's actually insulting to a paying customer that there is so little creativity or fun/engaging ways for them to have us expend this time, that the msq just becomes a daunting, dragged out and annoying slog. Do a few quests, a few solo duties a dungeon or trial, rinse and repeat. These solo duties are also designed to just waste time, like basic enemies but with insane amounts of hp and very unwise NPC that you have to protect. I try to die asap in these solo duties so that I can just swap to very easy and blast through it, but it's so hard to die that it ends up being a waste of time. My most recent alt is in post SB right now and there's so many solo duties that I just wanna call it quits. It's so annoying. Unlike new players , I know my way around. I know the quest locations that confuse people and have them wander around for 5 mins trying to find the things. I know the shortcuts. Etc. I can only imagine how frustrating it is for people who don't know the entire game like the back of their hand. It needs some more effort put into the ways it makes us spend our time. The quest design is ancient, and unenjoyable at many points.

[PercibelTheren]

So basically you want a single player story focused RPG

Not exactly wrong as an opinion but why ask for this design in an MMO

I mean, we could have actually fun endgame instead. I was dreading endgame as I played through the MSQ and I was right. There just isn't very much to do unless you want to raid. I dipped my toes into it, found out I need to get way better at the game before I mess with it. Other than that, there really isn't much to do. And that sucks.

[Supersnow845]

I mean, we could have actually fun endgame instead. I was dreading endgame as I played through the MSQ and I was right. There just isn't very much to do unless you want to raid. I dipped my toes into it, found out I need to get way better at the game before I mess with it. Other than that, there really isn't much to do. And that sucks.

I Agree with that statement 100%, the endgame in this game needs to be better

But the other person I was replying to seems to want a single player JRPG instead

[sindriiisgaming]

Probably triggered people with the title, but the struggle is super real to slog through the literally 200-400 hours of story content to get to max level if you aren't unemployed or a streamer. As a fairly long time player who has had a bunch of friends hop over from other games recently, I've noticed that most of them are washing out and quitting before getting to 80 to join me and my other established friends.

Mostly its the post-2.0, 3.0, and 4.0 patch content MSQ that is the culprit here as those storylines are as long if not longer than each expansion's respective leveling MSQ and you generally don't gain a ton of levels from them, making it feel like you are running around doing menial quests without any significant progression.

As someone who recommended people play the story legit initially, I'm now recommending that my firends buy the skip and watch the cutscenes later, because for my (quite large) friend group, we are batting close to 0 on people making it all the way to shadowbringers.

Suggestion: Add some sort of mode or way for players who hit max level for a specific expansion the ability to "fast track" their way through only the patch content portions of storyline. I.e. its basically the unending journey in that you basically watch all the cutscenes back to back without having to do the fetch quests, dungeons, etc that all take the bulk of the time. Then, when you hit the .zero content for the next expansion, you go back to leveling through it as normal as that still feels pretty good.

Just a bummer to entice my friends over with hopes to raid and do other activities with each other, and have to wait weeks or months for them to slog through the story, if they make it at all.

Buy a boost. The devs should not ever remove the last shreds of integrity the game has left