Uncapped AoE is ruining PvP Frontline/Rival Wings

[HyperiusUltima]

AoE falloff already exists and has for ages since ARR when AoE went out of hand in dungeons.

If a falloff past X targets can be calculated, then a falloff of 100% past 5 targets can be added easily without any problem that I can see.

Essentially you could simply you know, have a 75% fall off for any target past 5? Yet they would still need to do something about DRK’s Draw-in. Limiting it to 5 is janky anyhow since it’s the closest 5 on snapshot as someone mentioned above. It’s rough, but I can’t really think of any other way than the limitation of 5. Any other way of trying to draw Salted Earth in different ways simply would gimp DRK’s engagement that isn’t Plunge.

[Themarvin]

Been destroying opponent forces premades multiple times with some very few things you can do and is super effective.

They rely much on the DRK and DRGs etc etc... have a huge spread and you will ruin their game CC the DRKs..... and hit some of their key players, you may lose one or two members that way, but you can litterally after that pick them off one by one fast annd if you get them to waste their CDs as well, even better... as long as you brake them down enough you can cause havoc to them... also if they want them to follow them... just stand your ground or move away.

[Cidel]

Been destroying opponent forces premades multiple times with some very few things you can do and is super effective.

They rely much on the DRK and DRGs etc etc... have a huge spread and you will ruin their game CC the DRKs..... and hit some of their key players, you may lose one or two members that way, but you can litterally after that pick them off one by one fast annd if you get them to waste their CDs as well, even better... as long as you brake them down enough you can cause havoc to them... also if they want them to follow them... just stand your ground or move away.

This is ingenious insight. Simply don't stand anywhere near your teammates and have all your melee DPS be mindful to never attack the same target unless they can neatly space apart. Then after that, all you have to do is give-up every conceivable chokepoint fight or ice node to them so that you aren't close together, even though they are littered throughout every map. Then just CC the DRKs- don't worry about Purify, they won't use it. After that, kill them by reducing their HP to 0. When you kill them, they'll be dead. So simple even casual players can do it. We cracked the DRK premade.

[Themarvin]

This is ingenious insight. Simply don't stand anywhere near your teammates and have all your melee DPS be mindful to never attack the same target unless they can neatly space apart. Then after that, all you have to do is give-up every conceivable chokepoint fight or ice node to them so that you aren't close together, even though they are littered throughout every map. Then just CC the DRKs- don't worry about Purify, they won't use it. After that, kill them by reducing their HP to 0. When you kill them, they'll be dead. So simple even casual players can do it. We cracked the DRK premade.

Bards can really mess up DRKs, alot of range can, the current pre-made setup got to many flaws to be good, especially if the opponents know how it works, it is very very easy to ruin the chain of command in it.

[OliviaLugria]

This is ingenious insight. Simply don't stand anywhere near your teammates and have all your melee DPS be mindful to never attack the same target unless they can neatly space apart. Then after that, all you have to do is give-up every conceivable chokepoint fight or ice node to them so that you aren't close together, even though they are littered throughout every map. Then just CC the DRKs- don't worry about Purify, they won't use it. After that, kill them by reducing their HP to 0. When you kill them, they'll be dead. So simple even casual players can do it. We cracked the DRK premade.

This sounds like pretty heavy sarcasm.... spreading out during the enemy burst is actually extremely sound as a strategy. Salted is happening every 30 seconds, and unless you're otherwise engaged, the enemies are pretty easy to spot.

Let them hit a small number of your force than converge on them with you own burst is pretty standard mid level tactics.

Furthmore... giving up a point is exactly what you need to do if it means you live. If you take 10 deaths from an enemy burst that's more than the node was worth, and the enemy is probably also getting the point.

Suggesting bard is a little sus though... don't play bard. If your soul purpose is to delay/stop enemy burst then Monk, Warrior, Ninja, Dark Knight, Reaper, and Dancer are your best options.

[AriannaStormwake]

issue in frontline is more like certain classes having access to stuns and premades dumping them and lb stacks all on the same player
if this damage was nerfed sure people wont exploit rprs hysteria and machinist lb(hits 30k+ damage through guard for real) and rprs lb straight up"dispells" guard

[Aubrey_A]

Capping AoE is a neat idea. How does SE go about capping AoEs?

The BLU approach to AoE damage reductions is probably the easiest way to go. The in-game description for the BLU spell bomb toss and flame thrower below:

Deals fire damage at a designated location with a potency of 200 for the first enemy, and 50% less for all remaining enemies.

Deals fire damage to all enemies in a cone before you with a potency of 220 for the first enemy, and 50% less for all remaining enemies.

Reducing the damage of the AoE after hitting so many players sounds easy enough for SE to implement. Even if the reduction of damage is beyond 50% (I'd wager even 75% is fine in a group setting with battle high intertwined).

I'm not sure how well capping the amount of players an AoE can hit will do. How would SE choose who gets hit with an AoE? Not to mention the wonderful net code letting dead players get hit regularly, you could see a portion of an AoE having a null effect.

[OliviaLugria]

They already have a system for it in pvp kinda... it's actually reversed. Sam and dancer have moves that become stronger if they only hit 1 target target.

They're not actually gonna change the damage drop off when it's balanced around only having 5 enemies to hit at a time.

[Cidel]

This sounds like pretty heavy sarcasm....

Guilty. If someone's going to try and flex about how they "destroy" premades and how "super effective" it is, while not bringing anything new or insightful with the vaguest of vague details about a generic strategy that only works on paper or on newb premades that only just heard about how DRK is good in FL... I'm not going to take it seriously.

spreading out during the enemy burst is actually extremely sound as a strategy. Salted is happening every 30 seconds, and unless you're otherwise engaged, the enemies are pretty easy to spot.

The problem is that strategy only works in a vacuum and is not feasible in at least 50% of every engagement on every map. Even ignoring the general fighting behavior of the average FL playerbase, each map has deliberate chokepoints located next to half or more of the tomelith, ovoos, or large ices. In Onsal and Seal Rock, if you are not fighting on the objective, you are standing on or near a ramp or bridge in many of the node areas. Your legions of ranged dps aren't going to be social-distancing from each other if they are trying to hit any remotely exposed targets while keeping their distance.

Let them hit a small number of your force than converge on them with you own burst is pretty standard mid level tactics.

Any premade running DRKs worth their salt are not aiming for a small number of enemy forces. And anyone saving their burst for a fresh DRK jumping in might as well have done nothing at all once Eventide goes off and Undead Redemption pops up on their status bar.

Furthmore... giving up a point is exactly what you need to do if it means you live. If you take 10 deaths from an enemy burst that's more than the node was worth, and the enemy is probably also getting the point.

Again, not feasible in game modes that require objectives to win (unless you are running your own deathball, in which case the other team's comp isn't even an issue). Giving up a point every time you see the premade DRKs running towards you nothing short of surrendering and letting them have their way without even a fight. You take 10 deaths away from your team without increasing your score while letting them increase theirs without losing a single point either. The only point they're getting would be that your team is cowardly and they can bully you off objectives with just their presence.

Bards can really mess up DRKs, alot of range can, the current pre-made setup got to many flaws to be good, especially if the opponents know how it works, it is very very easy to ruin the chain of command in it.

Suggesting bard is a little sus though... don't play bard. If your soul purpose is to delay/stop enemy burst then Monk, Warrior, Ninja, Dark Knight, Reaper, and Dancer are your best options.

BRDs can offer a momentary annoyance to a DRK, who will probably not be killed from that second of Silence; unless they already have their Resilience buff activated, in which case the BRD's CC is useless and now they are probably close enough to get drawn-in. Furthermore, any CC in general will be largely useless as it will not give your average team enough time to shut-down/kill a DRK unless used in conjunction with jobs with unpurifiable CC like WHM or RPR. MNK seems like the real answer as their LB basically keeps the DRK from doing anything for several seconds- though it probably means they are sacrificing themselves every time to use it.

BRD's silence is a part of their burst, and is extremely effective at finishing off people who are getting focused on by several of your teammates. Saving it for DRKs is an incredible waste outside of niche situations or clutch moments to give your team a second to react. Not to "mess them up." MNK or another draw-in job is way more effective at that and WHM does it better with their CC bypassing Resilience. Hell, a sound macro calling-out a DRK running-up would mess them up more.

...And and if your sole purpose on a DNC is to delay/stop an enemy burst, I can almost guarantee you that you'll probably be dead from a Skyshatter or several Macrocosmos to the face before you finish twirling in your LB animation lock.

...and machinist lb(hits 30k+ damage through guard for real)

No, no it doesn't. You're conflating their LB with their buffed Drill ability. Or thinking you can put guard up after you see the crosshairs on you to prevent the damage when by that point the damage has been snapshotted and is just waiting for the animation to finish.

[Aubrey_A]

They're not actually gonna change the damage drop off when it's balanced around only having 5 enemies to hit at a time.

They would need to make it an FL-only change for the damage reduction method. The odds of that happening though? I'd sooner bet on CC being scrapped as a mode.