RP shout ads are obstructive to chat and gameplay

[strawberrycake]

I didn't mean you lol I meant the people who come here to contribute nothing and cause crap with arguments and making up nonsense etc. All the baseless nonsense to derail the thread without offering anything constructive... Just mind boggling how strange some people are.

Oh I know you didn't mean me, but your post is valid and no one wants to aknowledge how assinine their own reactions are because they can't see beyond their own noses.

Like by their own logic if you came on here back in early ARR complaining about the lack of dungeon exp, they;d just tell you to get over yourself and fate farm like everyone else. No room for critical thinking or dicussion.

[Gordita]

Oh I know you didn't mean me, but your post is valid and no one wants to aknowledge how assinine their own reactions are because they can't see beyond their own noses.

Like by their own logic if you came on here back in early ARR complaining about the lack of dungeon exp, they;d just tell you to get over yourself and fate farm like everyone else. No room for critical thinking or dicussion.

Yeah I've noticed this, it's really disappointing to see how much of a dumpster fire the entire forum has become, or maybe always has been? Either way, I was told, and expected much different than what I've come to see. The community actually was great back before shadowbringers. But I guess that corporate greed attracted some unsavory types and its all downhill after that. Oh well.

[TBerry]

I still doubt the intent behind this thread. And any goodwill was lost on page 1 already making gross generalizations about venues, and conflating them with nightclubs and whatever gil extortion venue there is.

Reading it again, this sentence makes no sense.
Let me try again:
What I meant is:
Generalizations about roleplayers and and RP venues, and conflating them with with nightclubs and the like.

My point is:
If people actually knew how to RP and organize properly, none of this would be an issue at all. But instead there is pointless competition and greed for fictional coin that only creates bad blood, harassment, spam and sabotage, and paywalled "roleplay" that creates bad blood because peiople don't know the difference between IC and OOC.
Spam is the symptom, not the disease.

[Erzaa]

Generalizations about roleplayers and and RP venues, and conflating them with with nightclubs and the like.

If people actually knew how to RP and organize properly, none of this would be an issue at all. But instead there is pointless competition and greed for fictional coin that only creates bad blood harassment, spam and sabotage, and paywalled "roleplay" that creates bad blood because peiople don't know the difference between IC and OOC.

This may all be true, but that doesn't mean the OPs idea is bad. It's a suggestion that's been made before as well, and it's a win-win for everyone.

RPers and venues could have a dedicated chat that's opt-in and a dedicated RP tab in the PF for their advertisements.

Non-RPers and players who aren't interested in that part of the game wouldn't have to deal with the annoyance with the venue spam in /shout chat, leaving it open for other shouts like Hunts.

And if a venue spammed advertisements in the /shout chat, ignoring their dedicated channel, they could be reported to GMs.

I feel like it's a good idea, and probably not super difficult to implement. But for some reason, every time it's been brought it up, it gets shouted down. *shrug*

[sindriiisgaming]

Okay, now you are just grossly exaggerating.

That is not happening in the game and you know it. None of the advertisements in Shout chat explicitly advertise anything of the sort. They are only ever described as +18 venues and often will drop their Carrd so you can learn more. Rarely will they even name drop "courtesans" in the Shout chat.

But that's not actually what happens. Children shouldn't be playing this game except in 2 countries where the law is le isn't on this. For the majority of users the licence agree clearly states 16+. That is a minor yes. But nit a child which is considered under 13. In my country 16 is a legal age of consent. I understand how annoying these things are. But exaggerating and making things into mountains will not push your cause

[TBerry]

This may all be true, but that doesn't mean the OPs idea is bad. It's a suggestion that's been made before as well, and it's a win-win for everyone.

RPers and venues could have a dedicated chat that's opt-in and a dedicated RP tab in the PF for their advertisements.

Non-RPers and players who aren't interested in that part of the game wouldn't have to deal with the annoyance with the venue spam in /shout chat, leaving it open for other shouts like Hunts.

And if a venue spammed advertisements in the /shout chat, ignoring their dedicated channel, they could be reported to GMs.

I feel like it's a good idea, and probably not super difficult to implement. But for some reason, every time it's been brought it up, it gets shouted down. *shrug*

Oh no, I am not against OP's idea.
It's the discourse surrounding it that annoys me.

[LianaThorne]

This may all be true, but that doesn't mean the OPs idea is bad. It's a suggestion that's been made before as well, and it's a win-win for everyone.

RPers and venues could have a dedicated chat that's opt-in and a dedicated RP tab in the PF for their advertisements.

Non-RPers and players who aren't interested in that part of the game wouldn't have to deal with the annoyance with the venue spam in /shout chat, leaving it open for other shouts like Hunts.

And if a venue spammed advertisements in the /shout chat, ignoring their dedicated channel, they could be reported to GMs.

I feel like it's a good idea, and probably not super difficult to implement. But for some reason, every time it's been brought it up, it gets shouted down. *shrug*

Two questions:

1. What is forcing anyone to actually use the new chat?
An argument I heard before in one of the previous threads on this topic is that if a channel is opt-in, it might lead to a smaller client base for the venue community to pull from and less reason to use it. To put it another way, if they aren't meeting the same profits/occupancy (because I fully agree with Berry on their assessment of the venue scene, money is King), I wouldn't put it past anyone to figure out a way around it (maybe by utilizing say chat on a throwaway alt instead of shout chat and standing near the Aetheryte...which is what bots already do and I never seem to miss one of those when I go into Limsa....). Free trial alts can't use shout chat but they can use Say and they can also get access to the NN. People already put venue ads in there on occasion.

2. Would the GMs actually be able to efficiently handle reports related to the new system?
As it stands right now, issues take quite a bit to be resolved (my stalker case took 2-3 days) if they're resolved at all. People have said they reported the same person multiple times over months and they're still in the game doing their thing (i.e. feet pics person for example lol). If a system like this was implemented, do you think the current GM response would be enough or would it need to become more efficient (probably through hiring more people)?

I'm not against the idea of a RP only chat/PF tabs (as someone who wants Other to just be for non-RP lol), I just can see a couple loopholes that would lead to people continuing to do the same thing they were, even if modified to fit new constraints. At the end of the day, the majority of the club/brothel community is in this to make money (gil or cash), so I would think they would need to make a somewhat similar amount through this new tab to be incentivized to use it instead of normal shout chat/loopholes. I wish it wasn't like this but as I've also said in previous threads, it's depressing how far the venue scene has fallen compared to pre-Covid.

[Erzaa]

1. What is forcing anyone to actually use the new chat?
An argument I heard before in one of the previous threads on this topic is that if a channel is opt-in, it might lead to a smaller client base for the venue community to pull from and less reason to use it. To put it another way, if they aren't meeting the same profits/occupancy (because I fully agree with Berry on their assessment of the venue scene, money is King), I wouldn't put it past anyone to figure out a way around it (maybe by utilizing say chat on a throwaway alt instead of shout chat and standing near the Aetheryte...which is what bots already do and I never seem to miss one of those when I go into Limsa....)

The ToS would force them to use the chat. If they don't use it, they get reported. As for throwaway alts, how's that different to RMT bots? Report/Blacklist and wait for the banwaves.

2. Would the GMs actually be able to efficiently handle reports related to the new system?
As it stands right now, issues take quite a bit to be resolved (my stalker case took 2-3 days) if they're resolved at all. People have said they reported the same person multiple times over months and they're still in the game doing their thing. If a system like this was implemented, do you think the current GM response would be enough or would it need to become more efficient (probably through hiring more people)?

I'm aware, I've also been in that situation. So, in your mind, the solution to this isn't to petition SE to provide more resources and liberty to act for their GMs, but instead, let's not do anything about it at all? Everything should just be left to inaction?

I'm not against the idea of a RP only chat/PF tabs (as someone who wants Other to just be for non-RP lol), I just can see a couple loopholes that would lead to people continuing to do the same thing they were because there's hardly any enforcement of the ToS to begin with in this game.

This is an issue for SE to fix, not the players. They should enforce the ToS or provide proper tools to blacklist/ignore harassers too.

And while we're on the subject, I'd also like a whitelist/blacklist for my private home too, and the ability for venues to kick troublemakers. It's a private house afterall, and if someone won't follow the owner's rules, they shouldn't be welcome on premises.

[LianaThorne]

The ToS would force them to use the chat. If they don't use it, they get reported. As for throwaway alts, how's that different to RMT bots? Report/Blacklist and wait for the banwaves.



I'm aware, I've also been in that situation. So, in your mind, the solution to this isn't to petition SE to provide more resources and liberty to act for their GMs, but instead, let's not do anything about it at all? Everything should just be left to inaction?


This is an issue for SE to fix, not the players. They should enforce the ToS or provide proper tools to blacklist/ignore harassers too.

And while we're on the subject, I'd also like a whitelist/blacklist for my private home too, and the ability for venues to kick troublemakers. It's a private house afterall, and if someone won't follow the owner's rules, they shouldn't be welcome on premises.

1. The ToS, in my opinion, is currently used as guidelines more than actual punishable actions (considering what people have been getting away with). You can report them all you want but they'll still be there in game the next day, week, month, etc.. Banwaves are also irrelevant if the accounts are on free-trial and a new one can just be made in a few minutes. Why do you think the same sites are still advertised by bots in main cities even after banwaves, just on different named accounts? Because it's that easy to just get a new one lol. In my opinion, they'd have to tighten up Free Trial even further to prevent this from being used.

2. We've been asking for more help from SE for years in terms of better handling of reports. This isn't anything new, I'm just in the camp of: "I don't expect them to do anything at this point". Maybe if they take a money hit because of this it'll affect some change.

3. I agree it is, I've also been in the vocal camp of wanting better blacklisting options for players due to my own stalking incident. However, that's also something I've been waiting 1y+ for and also take the viewpoint of "I don't expect them to do anything at this point." Again, maybe if they take a financial hit because of it, it'll change.

These are all things people have been asking for, but it falls on deaf ears. We asked for it in SHB, nothing in EW. We asked for it in EW, nothing mentioned yet for DT (I can't speak on ARR-STB since I wasn't there for it). If it doesn't come for DT, I'm officially wiping my hands of it because it really just says that they have no intention of helping provide better security options for their community.

[Gordita]

Nothing will ever change if people keep a defeated mindset from the start. Stand up for what you believe in and don't back down.
"Lol they don't care nothing will happen you're wasting your time" types will never see anything change for the better. Continued support and unity on a topic is the only way to see change.