AST Cards are boring

[IceBlueNinja]

It's not really fair to call the current cards 'minor' but man, as per the title, they truely are boring and uninspiring. If you're not running a parser you're just never going to feel them.

Say what you will about the old cards, but when you got a good run of luck and really pocketed someone with them, it felt good for all involved at least from my experiences.

Exactly my point thanks.

[IceBlueNinja]

This is a big one. Even the cards that were regarded as "mostly useless" like Bole and Ewer had a noticeable impact in the right situation.

Being able to put 20% mitigation on your random dungeon tank that doesn't know what mitigation is, or stacking Ewer with Lucid and extending them with CO to not run out of MP in savage pugs with your 0 piety gear made you appreciate those cards without having to comb through logs.

The only card that become useless when TP was removed was spire anyways else all of them was good. BLM will be all over you for giving them an arrow which makes it that they can save their ley lines up for more bigger damage burst at the right moment. Also yes that is the same thing I say on every ast card post. Stormblood ast =best ast.

[MitsukiKimura]

I'm starting to wonder if they should just put the 3% damage increase on all cards and just add the original card effect to it. No matter what you drew it gave a dps boost + the card effect. I remember begging the AST as a black mage for the arrow card it made spell speed builds really hilarious.

[Supersnow845]

I'm starting to wonder if they should just put the 3% damage increase on all cards and just add the original card effect to it. No matter what you drew it gave a dps boost + the card effect. I remember begging the AST as a black mage for the arrow card it made spell speed builds really hilarious.

That still wouldn’t really fix anything because for example the bole is almost always going to be used on a tank but you don’t want to apply a card to a tank except in niche optimisation around DRK’s burst window

If they returned the old card effects I’m imagining a deployment like design where the card is an AOE 2-3% buff centered around a single target that gets the card effect (so for example you put bole on the tank then everyone around the tank gets a 2-3% damage up) and the cards are made GCD’s

But considering they can do the same thing and just not do the old effect (so just a 2-3% AOE GCD buff) I’m assuming if they go that route they are going to take the easy route and leave it at that

[IceBlueNinja]

I'm starting to wonder if they should just put the 3% damage increase on all cards and just add the original card effect to it. No matter what you drew it gave a dps boost + the card effect. I remember begging the AST as a black mage for the arrow card it made spell speed builds really hilarious.

You would have love me because I always throw the arrows on my blm xD

[ForsakenRoe]

I'm starting to wonder if they should just put the 3% damage increase on all cards and just add the original card effect to it. No matter what you drew it gave a dps boost + the card effect. I remember begging the AST as a black mage for the arrow card it made spell speed builds really hilarious.

Basically is the 'solution' I'd go for, too, with some slight tweaks. I do agree that having some cards give 'more damage' and others 'not more damage' leads to the 'not damage' cards being 'dead'. I also think that the main issue that made old AST so hard/impossible to balance wasn't necessarily the card 'The Balance', but the fact that it could be made AOE. So keeping the cards single target, and the AOE burst window button as Divination (aka press it at 2min with no RNG or setup) would be the ideal middlepoint for 'balanceable' and 'fun'.

Supersnow raises the point that 'the Bole won't ever get used on it's intended target (tanks), because 3% on a DPS is more value than 3% on a non-DPS', and I agree with this. This is why, rather than using a percentage boost (as current cards do), I'd look at making not just unique 'utility' effects, but also the way the cards deal their damage being 'unique'. We don't need all six cards to be 'increases damage by X%, and also does bonus effect', when we could have things like 'Bole reflects damage based on Max HP, making it ideal to put on tanks (because they have more max HP)', or 'Arrow increases autoattack speed (homage to the old 'haste buff' version of Arrow, but without screwing up people's GCD alignment)', stuff like that. This way, the idea is that each of the five 'roles' (tanks, healers, melee, ranged, caster) have a 'preferred card', and one card (I chose Balance here) is a sort of 'wildcard' where you can place it on anyone (ideally a DPS still) and get good value out of it, as a 'get out of jail' card when the card draws are a bit wonky. I would also make Minor Arcana use the rest of the Deck of Sixty, as weaker variations of the main 6 card effects (tuned to be around 300p compared to Malefic's 250), so that every 6th GCD is something that isn't a Malefic, to mix the gameplay up a little bit. I don't really get how 'Lord of Crowns' is AOE damage, 'Lady of Crowns' is a heal (both being from the same suit in the deck), and the 'Ace' of that suit, the Spire, was originally a TP restore and now is a damage % increase. Where's the consistency??? I know the lore's been thrown out of the window with all the reworks but come on SE

Copypasting from another post because I don't want to type all of this again:

Major Arcana: now autodraws one card every 30s. If you have one already and a second 'recharge time' is completed, the second card will be placed in 'the Spread', to use a pre-SHB term. 'Play Major Arcana' will always play the Drawn card first, then the Spread card afterwards. If you have a card both Drawn and Spread, the timer pauses. This is intended to make the 'Spread' feel more like a 'leeway' to prevent overcapping. For optimization, you can dump two cards at 1min, then two at 2min in raidbuffs if you so wish

Minor Arcana: now draws a Minor Arcana every 15s. When you have a Minor Arcana drawn, the timer completing a charge again will 'Spread' a second Minor Arcana card. If a Minor Arcana card is both Drawn and Spread, like with the Majors, the timer to generate a new Minor Arcana will pause. Unlike Major Arcana, where the effects are strong enough to justify pooling for the burst window, the Minor Arcana is not that big a jump in potency (hopefully) to be worth delaying until raidbuffs, as the short recharge means you will likely lose a use if you delay too much

Playing Major Arcana is still OGCD, but Minor Arcana are GCD. A Major and a Minor effect can be on the same player at once, but not two Majors, or two Minors at once. EG, you can have 'the Balance and 'the Cups', but not 'the Cups' and 'the Pentacles', as those are two Minor Arcana. The Burst Window (tm) would essentially be Divination, Minor Major Minor Major. You would be able to delay a little between card uses by filling with a Malefic, to buy time to consider your next Card target. Because of Minor Arcana moving over to be GCD, the intention would be that it would both help to break up the Malefic monotony outside the burst window, and simultaneously free up some 'required double-weaves' into single-weaves, reducing the reliance on Lightspeed for the burst window's execution (allowing it to be used more for mobility)

Additionally, Sleeve Draw would return, becoming a 2charge, 60s charge time action. When you use it, your currently drawn Minor Arcana becomes a Lady of it's suit. This guarantees that inside the burst window, your Minor Arcana is always going to have the maximum effect.

Major Arcana effects:

Balance: 10% damage, 15s.

Bole: 20% damage mitigation, 15s. Additionally, grants 3 stacks of Bole's Bulwark, causing the enemy that strikes the bearer of this buff to take 10% of that ally's Max HP as damage and consuming one stack.

Arrow: Grants 10 stacks of 'Arrow's Assault' (12 if the target is PhysRanged), increasing Autoattack rate by 400%. One stack is consumed for each Autoattack dealt under it's effect, and upon consuming all stacks, the Autoattack rate returns to normal.
Additionally, if the target of this card is the AST, grants 5 stacks of Arrow's Assault, speeding up the recast time of the AST to 1.5s for the next 5 GCD attacks, and making cast times of those spells instant.

Ewer: Grants 1000mp over 15s. Additionally, If the target is a healer, grants 3 stacks of Ewer Overflowing, causing the next 3 attacks dealt to strike a second time for 100% of the spell's potency. Additional effects are not applied. This second strike cannot crit or Direct Hit.

Spear: 10% Physical damage, 15s. Additionally, if the target of this card is the AST, all magic damage dealt by the AST is instead considered physical for the duration, allowing them to benefit from this card's effect

Spire: 10% Magic damage, 15s

A Note on Minor Arcana: Knaves, Lords, Ladies are 7 8 and 9 respectively. Due to not having a duration, these effects will last on the target until they are overwritten by another card, or KO removes them.

X of Staves: Increases the next 5 attacks dealt by the target ally by 60p. Additionally, increases the damage of the first attack dealt by target ally after this effect is applied, by 5 potency, multiplied by the face value of the arcana.

X of Rings: Deals 100p in counterattack damage each time the target ally is struck, up to 3 times. Additionally, deals an additional 5 potency, multiplied by the face value of the arcana, for the first counterattack only.

X of Knives: Causes the next 6 Autoattacks to deal a second strike for 50p. Additionally, a bonus potency equal to the arcana face value is applied to each of these bonus strikes.
if the concept of 'potency value not divisible by 5' is too much for the engine, make it 'first autoattack has bonus damage of '5 x face value'' like the rest

X of Cups: Causes the next 3 healer damage spells to cost half MP, and to strike a second time for 100p. Additional effects are not applied twice. Additionally, the first of these spells deals bonus damage equal to 5 potency, multiplied by the face value of the arcana

X of Crowns: Increases the next 5 instances of Magic damage dealt by 60p. Additionally, a bonus potency equal to the arcana face value is applied to each of these bonus strikes.
(see arrow if game can't handle non-5 values)

X of Irons: Increases the next 5 instances of Physical damage dealt by 60p. Additionally, a bonus potency equal to the arcana face value is applied to each of these bonus strikes. Additionally, if the target of this card is the AST, the next 5 instances of magic damage are instead considered physical, allowing them to benefit from this card's effect

By making the cards have a unified effect of 'increases damage', balanced against one another in output, we can have them feel unique again with additional effects (like Bole's Mit, or Ewer's MP restore). We can also create effects that allow every role to have a card that is 'desired by X role', rather than the previous 'Balance or bust', or the current 'throw it all on the DPS'. Tanks and Healers would also get to have a card that is not just a case of 'well, I got a caster card and we've got two melee in this dungeon', but one specifically tailored to be 'this is the best on Healers, but casters can make some use of it as well'. This would also allow for, as mentioned previously, 'slightly unconventional' play with some card effects. For example, with the effect of Bole, 'reflect damage based on Max HP', you would place it on a Tank normally, as they have the highest Max HP. But you might also consider using it on a Healer or Caster for additional safety (eg they got a vuln stack) at the cost of a tiny amount of damage. By associating each card/suit with a specific role, I believe that the effect/role pairings would be very intuitive to learn (at least, easier to learn than having to relearn that Arrow/Ewer are now a pair, instead of Arrow/Spear). Bole protects, so it goes on Tanks. Spears are melee weapons, so it goes on the Melee. The Spire gets struck by magic lightning, so it goes on Casters, etc.

As a final side note, I've also thought about a new system for assisting in targeting allies for one-off ability uses without breaking your targeting on your current target. Essentially, like executing a macro that says /ac "action" <2>, but without actually having to make all those macros and bind them all. It would be something akin to more recent Monster Hunter games, with their Radial Menu of quickbinds for items, crafting, or emotes. Essentially, the way I'd envision it would be something like:



So in the example Arcana Gauge given, your burst window would be:

Malefic until burst time

Divination, Sleeve Draw (to empower the Minor Arcana into a Lady of it's suit, in this case, Lady of Cups)

Hold Minor Arcana button (this is GCD)
Move mouse/RightStick to the right (targets the SCH)
Release Minor Arcana button (Card is sent to SCH), let go of RightStick to go back to it's neutral position

Hold Major Arcana button (this is an OGCD weave)
Move mouse/Rightstick up/down (targets one of the tanks, whichever is MT atm)
Release Major Arcana button, release RightStick

Sleeve Draw if desired (this would turn the 6 of Irons into a Lady of Irons, in this case)

Hold Minor Arcana button (this is GCD)
Move mouse/RightStick down-left or down-right (targets the NIN/MNK)
Release Minor Arcana button (Card is sent to NIN/MNK), release RightStick

Hold Major Arcana button (this is an OGCD weave)
Move mouse/Rightstick down-left or down-right (targets the NIN/MNK again, as a Major and Minor effect can both be active at once on someone, but not two Major effects or two Minor effects)
Release Major Arcana button, release RightStick

Spam some more Malefics until Minor Arcana comes back up

That might look like a lot of stuff, but it's actually only two GCDs worth of actions listed there (the two uses of Minor Arcana). In practice, I'd expect it to feel pretty fast paced, but also very fluid, to throw out cards at such speeds. At first, it'd be a bit weird to get used to, but with practice, I can see people getting incredibly fast at executing actions within such a system. As mentioned before, Malefics can be thrown in to 'buy a GCD' to consider your next card move if needed, or to buy time for a Redraw if needed. Additionally, this system could theoretically work for a lot of other skills. Excog, Lustrate, Exaltation, EssentialDignity, DivineBenison, Tank shareables like Intervention or Nascent Flash, even something like DragonSight for DRG, or Verraise/Vercure on RDM and Rekindle on SMN, could benefit from such a system, making the act of 'throw this utility skill onto an ally' so much more fluid, and preventing (or at least reducing) those instances of 'untarget boss to heal, can't tab back to boss because it's too damn big'

I agree that they'll likely take the easy way out and make the card effects weaker and AOE. I'm posting this in as many threads as it is a relevant topic to show that actually, the easy way isn't the only way, and there could be a much more creative/interesting solution to the issue. Not that SE will see it, but hey, I can at least say 'I'd have done it better' when it turns out god-awful for the third time in a row

[Sebazy]

That still wouldn’t really fix anything because for example the bole is almost always going to be used on a tank but you don’t want to apply a card to a tank except in niche optimisation around DRK’s burst window

I've mentioned it before, but that can be gotten around too. EG what about an unmodifiable enspell style effect that 'generates' potency over time until it's unleashed with the targets next attack with it's peak damage coming at just over a GCD. As long as that additional hit is applied after modifiers and deals fixed damage per potency irrespective of who it's cast on (Aka it's using the AST's stat conversion ideally) then that solves most of the issue I think?

There's always a solution with a bit of creativity IMO!

[Valence]

This is a big one. Even the cards that were regarded as "mostly useless" like Bole and Ewer had a noticeable impact in the right situation.

Being able to put 20% mitigation on your random dungeon tank that doesn't know what mitigation is, or stacking Ewer with Lucid and extending them with CO to not run out of MP in savage pugs with your 0 piety gear made you appreciate those cards without having to comb through logs.

Yeah but nowadays people cry long crocodible tears whenever their rotation is not strictly MP positive...

[Raikai]

I really, really love AST, I've been maining it since I started in SB until now, and I love the way it heals compared to other healers.

But I really miss cards having a bit more depth. I get that they are the way they are now because back then you only fished for the same two cards, but all the cards doing the same thing now just feels like a thing to keep me busy, instead of a cool personal mechanic of the job.

I hope they can find a balance between practical and fun, because in the current iteration I still get RNG screwed anyway, so it may as well be more entertaining.

In a game like XIV, sadly, the option that gives more damage will always be preferred.

I don't see how they can add multiple different effects once more with this.. Unless they add utility as a secondary effect. E.g. the Bole gives damage and mitigation. The Arrow gives damage and movement speed, etc.

And even in the utility front, there's only so much that can be added. The big downside with XIV's 'on leash' encounter design is that there's very little room for player expression outside of the choreographed stuff.

[INovemI]

Feel free to roast me if this is a bad idea (or has already been tried and failed), as I'm fairly new to the job and have never quite reached endgame but am experiencing some of the same boredom with the current card system as I level, but what would be cool to me and I think would fix the issue the old system had (only wanting to draw the same cards over and over again) while preserving the convenience of the current system (plugging the card into the appropriate ally) is to allow the Astro to add effects to the card before they're played. Maybe it would be too complicated and add too much button bloat, but keeping the class reliable while also spicing up the cards a bit seems like something that would satisfy both sides. Plus I think there are ways without adding individual cooldowns for each effect to your bar, like by having skill usage dictate which effects get added to cards (like if you just used a DPS skill, you could buff your ally's damage or - if you used an AOE - freecast an AOE at the target's location as you deploy the card). Maybe this wouldn't fix the problem with the cards you draw not feeling distinct though, so perhaps the cards could be used to enhance the skills instead? Like if you draw Arrow, you increase the range of the next skill you cast and make it automatically crit or if you draw Spire it automatically makes the next single target skill you cast into an AOE.

Maybe I'm just dreaming though, I think it would be cool for Astro to be a class that excels based on adapting to whatever it gets and using that effectively, rather than seeking out any specific outcome or having certain outcomes be "bad" regardless of your play (with redraw being there to help in situations where you draw something which is inappropriate).