Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Nobuyuki_Sanada]

You are literally a meme I joke about.

Good one! Also I don't care

[Supersnow845]

Didn't necro anything, I go to new posts and never comment on anything not in the top 5. I did give examples in the other threads, but I'm also not a game designer, I don't think I have to give exact examples or else its not possible. Literally the only MMO where the healer is expected to dps for over 90% of their skills.

And if you actually read the threads you would know we don’t like that design either, we just know enough about game design to know that “if press glare press medica 2 instead” doesn’t remotely solve this issue

More complex DPS kits can coexist with spending less time actually pressing them, I really don’t understand what’s so remotely hard to understand about this concept

[hythloth]

an empowered phase that was:

healer'y (like a hp sacc and timed lock out for all hp regain to self for GCDx2.5)

committing - i liked the stance swap, cleric stance, was it?
- something strong, as your smn grade healer during with int/mnd swap.
- flip out the abilities...
-->> definately bloodborne style blood lilies for whm.
-->> astro with cleric stance spell converts like 'pulsar'... where gravity n.dawntrail becomes something that bounces mobs into clusters like bulbs of an hourglass... while orbiting each other and causing harm on collide....

more complex to implement:
- combinatorial casts
- arena enchantments (these drain lb gauge to provide 1x constant raid buff that group comp arranges).

linked support / hire: healers have backup, kupo. or grow horns on their head, and sulk about back cave of gridania. -- on big cooldown, healer summons a squadron member/generic pet (like an eureka orthos support egg...) tank for you and taunt for a bit, or play a role as might a duty support grade capability...
something you can dress a skin on within reason, and then use...

...but gwydion, kupo, we're not supposed to mention limit break / level cap quests in ff14, or the puppeteer class that could make

[hythloth]

did you know:

'The shroud has long held back contracts with all sorts theyd not mention.

word is, the most sought after Garlean cheese uses cave mold from Gridania in its creation and aging.

So with contracts goes legend, and even cause of a city's starvation.

a 'warrior of darkness' once paid a month to sleep offline using a bag of such Gridanian cave fungus.

the hotellier so enraptured by his explaining it, and hos offering to make eulemore's finest for room and board.

unfortunately, it caused terrible crop blight.

both alcohols and cheeses improved, and it was the poor who starved.

this is why alphinaud went to eulemore, and they like the cheese, because fancy.

the warrior of darkness' actions were not appreciated by the shroud, but were opportune to overlook.

regardless of coverup, gridanian leadership were quick to dispatch call to aid, believing:

that none shall suffer mass famine unaided while we laze in bounty. laze in wealth, and plenty.

no, to assist refugee and displaced, is also diplomatic seeding, and a means of geoshaping.

it is why we are better, and why some costs are to be paid. it is what societal luddite calls aloof, out-of-touch, not in the here and now, or not on the same page as the commonest and often lowest denomination of man in behaviors.'

recommended dish: the 'bigger bismark on fridays', there is no eating fish on fridays in Gridania, because fish are eaten every other day."

-- written in lolipretian in what appears to be happiness ink and sharp fountain pen... it is titled: a luncheon, a sojourner's recounting of Shrouded cuisine -- puddingway

[Sani2341]

> Nobody asks for DPS-level rotations
> "gO pLaY a DpS"

Classic.

Well, I guess they do kind of have a point. HW SCH is more complex than current SMN.

I mean it's not hard to be more complex than current SMN. I'd even argue the existance of Energy drain, biolysis and a cast bar puts SCH on par with it for dps complexity.

[Aravell]

And if you actually read the threads you would know we don’t like that design either, we just know enough about game design to know that “if press glare press medica 2 instead” doesn’t remotely solve this issue

More complex DPS kits can coexist with spending less time actually pressing them, I really don’t understand what’s so remotely hard to understand about this concept

The playerbase has dealt with a decently complex job kit along with a decently complex fight design before, it's what Stormblood was. I don't understand why people keep thinking that we can only have one of either:

- A complex damage kit
- Higher healing requirements
- Complex fight design

We had all 3 in SB. SCH and AST retained a lot of their complexities in SB, I don't think anyone would consider content like Orbonne Monastery to be a joke in terms of healing requirements, and I don't think anyone can seriously claim that Thundergod Cid is a boring fight. That's just in casual content like alliance raids too. For savage, we had fights like O8S and O12S that have intricate mechanics like Forsaken and Hello, World, those 2 fights also had decent healing requirements and we did it all with healer job kits that retained complexity and nuance.

[ty_taurus]

The playerbase has dealt with a decently complex job kit along with a decently complex fight design before, it's what Stormblood was. I don't understand why people keep thinking that we can only have one of either:

- A complex damage kit
- Higher healing requirements
- Complex fight design

We had all 3 in SB. SCH and AST retained a lot of their complexities in SB, I don't think anyone would consider content like Orbonne Monastery to be a joke in terms of healing requirements, and I don't think anyone can seriously claim that Thundergod Cid is a boring fight. That's just in casual content like alliance raids too. For savage, we had fights like O8S and O12S that have intricate mechanics like Forsaken and Hello, World, those 2 fights also had decent healing requirements and we did it all with healer job kits that retained complexity and nuance.

You're forgetting how Stormblood was apparently Dark Souls level difficulty. Remember how simply getting through a leveling dungeon as a Scholar with two primary DOTs, Miasma II, Shadowflare, a meaningful Energy Drain, and Bane required months of intense gaming practice that only the most elite FFXIV players could hope to pull off?

[Maltothoris]

Bumping this up again.

And like others have said, it's annoying that they keep taking stuff away from healers and just replacing it with more heals thus making everything redundant and really putting yourself into a designer corner and grave at the same time.

[Aravell]

Bumping this up again.

And like others have said, it's annoying that they keep taking stuff away from healers and just replacing it with more heals thus making everything redundant and really putting yourself into a designer corner and grave at the same time.

It's not only that they're removing things from healers and replacing it with more pointless heals, it's also that they're being hypocritical in terms on the roles.

Tanks? Can have healing, can have damage buttons, can have mitigation, can have debuffs, cannot have buffs.
DPS? Can have healing, can have damage buttons, can have mitigation, can have debuffs, can have buffs.
Healers? Can have healing, cannot have damage buttons, can have mitigation, cannot have debuffs, can have buffs.

Only healers cannot have damage buttons, only healer cannot have debuffs (Disable, Virus gone). DPS can step on the toes of every role, tanks are only restricted from having party buffs but can step all over the toes of healers. It's a dead-end of design because they completely blocked off 2 routes that the healer role can expand to, leaving only pointless healing and more mitigation, buffs are also locked to only SCH and AST, so WHM and SGE are suffering even more in terms of available design. It's honestly a mess.

[Supersnow845]

Does anyone really even consider SCH worthy of the title “buff healer”, chain is literally the single most boring button of any of the in game buffs because while it’s objectively potent it’s even harder to see a 10% increase in crit chance than it is to see 6% damage up

I guess maybe you could argue it makes cramming ED’s into a window slightly more interesting which I guess makes it maybe a bit more interesting than searing light but ED itself is so weak feeling even that doesn’t feel remotely useful (also ignoring the fact that only one CS can be up on the boss at a time during casual content)

If you are gonna be a “buff healer” I feel like you should have at least 2-3 buffs, whether that be AST’s design of multiple short buffs, DNC’s design of a potent buff on one person constantly or BRD’s design of a weak buff with 100% uptime, SCH doesn’t remotely feel like a buff healer in practice