Feedback: Feeling disappointed by 6.55's narrative, and thus unsure about Dawntrail

[SieyaM]

it was confirmed that hyda doesnt temper anyone, although they kinda forget about the echo much at all in favor of the blessing, which was a spell venat could always use anyways. Kinda strange considering krille and iceheart

They say that, but then there are multiple instances during ARR where primals say that we are either already claimed by another or tainted by the light which seems to indicate that we are tempered in some way. I think this is evidence of a plot that was greatly altered that would have made Hydaelyn either more of a morally ambiguous figure or just made her an opposing force to Zodiark with both of them being equals.

[Iscah]

That's why I said either or. Both version have been know to used before in other work, it's just usually a setting will pick and stick with one version instead of multiple. But hey it's fiction, there is no rule saying you have to stick with one.

What I'm trying to say is that it is possible to have a single set of rules on how time travel works, and yet have some circumstances where a stable time loop forms and other times where it is possible for the traveller to alter events.

To be clear, I fully understand that there is no changing or erasing of the original timeline. G'raha did not save the timeline he came from. But he still managed to change events in the past, which caused a second branch of time to split off from the path that leads to where he came from, so that there can still be a timeline where the original version of events happened.


Edit to add: Basically, splitting the timeline is the last resort to prevent a causal paradox when a time traveller's actions stop their own past from happening.

[Turtledeluxe]

That's why I said either or. Both version have been know to used before in other work, it's just usually a setting will pick and stick with one version instead of multiple. But hey it's fiction, there is no rule saying you have to stick with one. G'ahara didn't change the past, he "splits" it. In his original time line, the flood of light still happened, the WoL is still death, and Eorza is still messed up. It's just due to the effort of coming together and finish the tower project, people find new source of hope and inspiration to move forward. In both case, neither of us managed to change our past.

That's why I also said even if people argue that the WoL and Venat should have tried to done more to save the ancient, at best we can split another timeline where the Ancient survive, but that will do nothing for the Ancient of our time line. In this universe it seems the law of causal paradox is pretty much absolute, it's just the writers also allow the concept of multi-verse so we can explore different possibility, but so far no one have manage to circumvent the actual time paradox in the same universe.


Another of my theory (based on some other works) for the difference is that G'ahara time travel was more complete. He was sent back in a "literal" time machine as a whole package and able to insert himself as a proper entity in the new timeline, and thus granted permission to change it. Think about as if the time mechanism has an authentication process that will only allow entity it recognize as the "original" to impact change upon it, and G'ahara passed that authentication. Whether in our case, Elidiburg only hastily send a "mirage" of the WoL to the past meant to only be able to observe, that's how we arrived at Elpis. Only thanks to Emer-Setch that our mirage was solidified and thus give us some mean of interaction, but that's probably not enough to pass the time mechanism's authentication process. Thus we were never recognized as a proper original entity in the time line and do no possess the ability to dictate its course.

G'raha did not strictly time travel-- he cross Rift traveled to a point in time. I don't think it's so much permission as much as it is that all time in XIV is already written, and his traversal is a part of what was always meant to happen in that timeline. This is a general thing for all time in FFXIV. The "true timeline" is just whatever Yoshi P wants.

And the main reason I say this, is because SHB features an Echo where the Echo is used to see an immutable future. Plus, Elidibus alludes to this in EW. Although choices, divergences, etc can happen-- nothing is going to forestall the fate that is bound to happen.

[SieyaM]

For the timey-wimey crowd I offer the following: Everything is cool because the Fighting Monks of the Order of Wen ensured it would be so, as they do in nearly every work of fiction that ends more-or-less happily for some number of survivors after a time-travel event.

To the OPs first comments:

1. This is standard operating procedure for the Warrior of Light, who knows less about politics and more about the Power of Making Friends

2. As I previously posted, coercion does not play a part in the storyline. Accepting the request and the aftermath of such acceptance will be the storyline.

3. Knowing nothing of the petition or the petitioner, stating that this is a secret being "kept" from the Warrior of Light is a bit like saying "My boyfriend doesn't tell me everything about what he does when we are apart."

4. The individuals involved don't know much, if anything, about Tural. Both G'raha Tia and the Warrior of Light spend time reading some of the books available in the Noumenon. That's what people do when they don't know anything about a place they've never visited before. We are extremely spoiled in these times, because we have access to one of the Wonders of the Modern World: the Internet. How would players respond to having to read every last tome available about Tural before they can begin the next expansion? The four volumes are enough to provide flavor to possible storylines without overwhelming players with the sociopolitical/meteorological/geographical/religious/statistical information available for, say, South America.

We aren't talking about what our partner does when we are away, a partner that I am assuming you would know pretty well or at least much more so than we know Wuk or Tural and have established trust with. We also are not talking about visiting a foreign land we know nothing about, we are talking about supporting someone for rule of a nation we know nothing about, and nothing about the person we are supporting to have what I can only assume is complete dictatorial rule over this nation since there has been no mention of any other governing bodies. I mean how irresponsible is it for us to even entertain the idea of supporting a candidate when we don't even know the structure of government they will be ruling, will they in fact have complete control over every facet of life for their subjects or is there some kind of representative body to keep power from being absolute?

[Xirean]

No. G'raha straight up time travelled. To suggest he rift traveled would suggest that his destination was still in existence which it wasn't. That was kinda the point.

[Iscah]

No. G'raha straight up time travelled. To suggest he rift traveled would suggest that his destination was still in existence which it wasn't. That was kinda the point.

Who is suggesting that he rift-travelled instead of time-travelling?

In any case, it was both. Backwards in time to "before the calamity"; sideways through the rift (which separates the shards within a single timeline) to reach the First.

Then forwards with the normal flow of time, initially along the same timeline he originally arrived from, but attempting and eventually succeeding in forging a new path that diverges from the original.

[Metalface_Villain]

i personally skipped all the 6.55 story, i tried to read it like i normally do but i don't know if the story is bad or whether the stakes aren't there or whether i feel that there is no more story to tell after ew or maybe i'm negatively biased with the expansion in general but i honestly couldn't be bothered reading all that wafflefest of yapping. my controversial opinion about the story and the game in general is that they shouldn't have gona to another expac after endwalker but make a new game

[Turtledeluxe]

Who is suggesting that he rift-travelled instead of time-travelling?

In any case, it was both. Backwards in time to "before the calamity"; sideways through the rift (which separates the shards within a single timeline) to reach the First.

Then forwards with the normal flow of time, initially along the same timeline he originally arrived from, but attempting and eventually succeeding in forging a new path that diverges from the original.

Yes, I thought my post indicated that it's both. It's not just that he time traveled, but rift traveled to a point in time (which necessitates time travel as well), which helps to resolve the contradiction that is occurring with his stopping of his own future.

Like, why exactly do all of his actions split causality in this way? There are other instances in the game where this cannot happen, at least not in the universe we are in with our Source and all its reflections.

[Xirean]

Who is suggesting that he rift-travelled instead of time-travelling?

In any case, it was both. Backwards in time to "before the calamity"; sideways through the rift (which separates the shards within a single timeline) to reach the First.

Then forwards with the normal flow of time, initially along the same timeline he originally arrived from, but attempting and eventually succeeding in forging a new path that diverges from the original.

My post didn't include the quote for some reason. It was Turtle though.

[Metalface_Villain]

Yeah, you're right. We didn't oppress our enemies, we just killed them. Lmao.

what you guys are saying is similar to someone killing the nazis and then we call them oppressors because they killed the genocidal maniacs xD ironically enough irl america did take their place and became the global oppressors but still you can't call them oppressors for killing pure evil mofos that wanted to do nothing but evil. furthermore the wol never used their power other than to defeat the bad guys of the game, they didn't turn into modern day america. you guys are way off with the oppressor thing but you are right that this obviously doesn't feel like an adventure because we are extremely overpowered, that's a pretty bad direction to take the game but there really isn't another way to go, the game should have ended after ew tbh, with ff17 taking it's place and a new adventure starting from scratch.