/r/ffxivdiscussion: Has FFXIV had any major retcons or plot holes in the story?

[Rongway]

"Another was the three forms of aether. In 1.0-2.0, it was Corporeal, Soul, and Anima, with the last one being the resource people drew upon to use aetherytes. It slowly regenerated over time, and even served a mechanical function in putting a cooldown timer on aetheryte teleportation. I think this is still even named by some NPCs hanging around low level zones. HW will make a nod in name only to Anima in the 'Anima weapons' relic questline, which is about creating and nurturing an 'artificial soul' within our weapons using our experiences as an adventurer. And I think that's it."

Anima is explicitly named in Stormblood and implied as a conceptual currency for teleportation that not everyone has as much of as WoX, and explains why most people take the long way from place to place instead of teleporting everywhere.

____ and I have been hard at work attempting to restore the aetheryte here to its former glory...and I am pleased to inform you that we succeeded!

Suffice it to say, it should prove a boon for travel--well, for those replete with anima like you, at least...

[NanaWiloh]

You don't think Venat sundered any kids when she sundered the world? How many parents sacrificed themselves so that their children would live only to watch their kids butchered, helpless to help them? I'm sure many parents spent 12k years as an aether shield for the shredded pieces of their kids. Not to mention, when she released the Ascians to do the rejoinings, to preserve the timeline, she knows that will require millions of people to die, babies burning in their cribs as their shard falls to fire, or drowning to death as it falls to water, or freezing to de...her actions led to many, many, many dead kids.

But hey, survival of the fittest. They should have been born on the Source if they didn't want to die horrib...oh wait, no, generations of people died horribly in each calamity, short of being the WoL, nothing spares you from a horrible death in this new world. But even the WoL's lifespan has been reduced by thousands of years, so rip. But hey, at least we get to be the superior race. Superior at enduring pain. It's so dark. Why is it this dark? I feel like EW set out to turn me into Fandaniel.

I know childern were sundered and died but knowing and seeing are different.

[NanaWiloh]

Now I am really starting to believe lore discussions will become no different then outrage on twitter.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Now I am really starting to believe lore discussions will become no different then outrage on twitter.

There's slightly more moderation here than on Twitter.

[Turtledeluxe]

I don't understand the aversion to survival of the fittest. Yes, that's generally how things work, especially when you want them to continue onward. It isn't about being perfect in every way, it's about being best suited to the environment. We don't exactly know why Venat overcame her foe, but she was the victor nonetheless so it does follow that she would be the steward of this new era of humanity.

Maybe the real issue people have with the story is that Zodiark was not said fittest despite, as far as I know, the fight being completely fair and open to either side to win.

[Theodric]

I don't understand the aversion to survival of the fittest. Yes, that's generally how things work, especially when you want them to continue onward. It isn't about being perfect in every way, it's about being best suited to the environment. We don't exactly know why Venat overcame her foe, but she was the victor nonetheless so it does follow that she would be the steward of this new era of humanity.

It is not a story revolving around the survival of the fittest. It is a story that pretends to be deep even as it relentlessly shields the game's protagonists from the vast majority of consequences whilst conveniently giving them the very tools needed to succeed in any given situation.

What you are arguing in favour of is artificial reverse eugenics intended to wipe out those who would ordinarily be stronger than what comes after them, in order to prop up the bizarre glorification of a 'rag tag band of misfits' so common in modern media.

We have discussed this already, however, as I pointed out to you many times in the past that the protagonists, themselves, are fiercely opposed to any attempts to forcibly evolve or change them against their will.

So was it the case with Athena.

So was it the case with the villain in the Sage job quests.

So was it the case with Gaius, who tried to justify his invasion of other territories through 'might makes right'.

So was it the case with the Ascians who wished to push for the Rejoinings.

So was it the case with Varis, who wished to follow through with the Rejoinings only to turn on the Ascians in the aftermath.

So was it the case where the Scions, themselves, agreed back in Shadowbringers that if it were their loved ones facing the Sundering, then they would stand in defiance of Hydaelyn as well.

This is a game that had the lead developer come out with a statement admitting that he was going to change to the Sage job icon because a portion of players found the holes in it to be 'upsetting'. It is little more than an often selfish power fantasy for those who enjoy playing a character that is constantly and artificially positioned as the most important person in the room.

Perhaps you should go back and review those video and text sources I linked earlier, as you seem to be repeatedly be going off on tangents unrelated to what is being discussed and actively spreading misinformation. For example, we know that Venat's assault upon Zodiark was not a fair fight as she was acting as a saboteur against the Ancients as a whole throughout the lead up to the Final Days as well as during the aftermath. There are many individuals who will claim that something is bad or good depending on whether or not it benefits the protagonists at the time of writing, but if it does not benefit the protagonists and instead serves to grant a boon to someone else then and only then is the reverse true.

It is rhetoric I have seen many times before around these parts. At any rate, the Ancients must have done many things right as the only reason the Sundered even exist is through Venat hijacking tools intended to keep the Ancients alive so that they could, instead, be used to benefit the Sundered. Funny, that. Though that's where that good old broken aesop phrase I linked earlier comes into play.

A refresher, for your convenience: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrokenAesop

This kind of extreme language-- gushing?

That is not an example of extreme language, so much as an attempt for certain posters to control narratives through policing tone and words.

[Boblawblah]

I for one, gladly worship our genocidal mommy. Venat did nothing wrong.



(i'd do the other gif, but the "trancers" or whatever they call themselves don't like it)

[Turtledeluxe]

seen many times before around these parts.

I didn't say it was a story about survival of the fittest. I'm saying it typically what results from conflicts and the victor tends to do what they want.
I find critics, maybe not you but others, seem to imply Venat lacks empathy. But if she has all this agency and knowledge-- how is not maintaining the timeline any more empathetic when it dooms generations of people and myriad planets to non-existence as well? Isn't this what defines her as a tragic hero?

And no, there's no equivalence between other situations and this becuase Elidibus used a form of travel where the past cannot change the present. He literally says it. Stop denying it.

[Lady_Silvermoon]

I don't understand the aversion to survival of the fittest. Yes, that's generally how things work, especially when you want them to continue onward. It isn't about being perfect in every way, it's about being best suited to the environment. We don't exactly know why Venat overcame her foe, but she was the victor nonetheless so it does follow that she would be the steward of this new era of humanity.

Maybe the real issue people have with the story is that Zodiark was not said fittest despite, as far as I know, the fight being completely fair and open to either side to win.

This right here is my issue. "What's wrong with survival of the fittest."

The morals of Endwalker corrupts the morals of its playerbase. If you don't understand why it's wrong to wipe out a people and replace it with a "superior" people, then maybe FF14 should stop trying to teach morality as they are doing a terrible job at it.

And I don't know how many ways my issue is the game putting a positive spin on murdering innocent people and not that I want "my guy to win." I get Venat has to win for the game to happen, but they could have either made it a mistake, her doing it without knowing all the suffering she'd cause, or made her evil. But they had her do it on purpose, with full knowledge of all the suffering she'd cause and she's painted as heroic. WUT?!

Also, if we were supposed to learn from this that survival of the fittest is correct, why were the Omnicron a dead end? They handled to Sundering so poorly that you can't even finish EW before you hit several contradictions. "The universe may end, and all may be for naught, but I will live as I always have." Unless you're an Ancient, then eat sword.

ETA: BTW, "fittest" in this context is a single person deciding to kill them to make us. I'm sure had the Ancients been informed their continued survival required winning a personality contest, they would have put on a more impressive show.

ETA2: Also, 'survival of the fittest' refers to beings surviving in an environment due to being more suited for it. The Sundered are not more fit to take a sword to the face than the Ancients were. The Sundered...well, I was about to say they weren't killed, but Venat actually set up seven worlds worth of Sundered to be killed and two worlds' worth to be driven to the brink, so I guess I'll have to clarify and say the difference is the Sundered weren't wiped out entirely. And again, I stress, this was due to the decision of a single person and not due to anything superior about our biology.

[Theodric]

And no, there's no equivalence between other situations and this becuase Elidibus used a form of travel where the past cannot change the present. He literally says it. Stop denying it.

I have already addressed this misconception and misdirection many times in previous posts, such as here:

Meanwhile the 8UC timeline existing as an independent forked timeline in its own right. Go read it here. https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../#sidestory_08

You did not answer my earlier question relating to Pandaemonium. Have you completed that raid series yet? It is, in turn, another example of the player character going back in time and altering things which dispels the belief that venturing to Elpis would be a one time only affair or that the presence of the player character would not result in meaningful change.