Feedback: Feeling disappointed by 6.55's narrative, and thus unsure about Dawntrail

[Ath192]

Hmmm that's not a fair statement as it would require knowing for a fact what reincarnation and it's experience is...though the fact the game shows at various points some semblance of memory retention by the various NPC's suggests it's not just a whole new life.

If you want to go that deep then Meteon didn't kill anybody and most people were still alive in that ball of goo she was holding on to in Ultima Thule. Thus, she did no damage. And there was nothing final about it. They would just continue... being goo until something else happened I guess.

[Theodric]

As I touched on a previous quote above - This depends on theological ideologies that can't be proven one way or another...However considering the Ascians entire goal was to achieve The Rejoining means the previous state of life can be restored to it's original state...Therefore, the sum of what makes up said original state till exists within the new world.

That does not hold up under scrutiny, I'm afraid. As it was never Venat's intention to allow for the Ancients to follow through with the complete plan to restore themselves. The only reason she kept them around was because Zodiark was a necessary barrier against Meteion's assault and without Zodiark maintaining such a barrier Etheirys would have once again succumbed to the Final Days.

Furthermore, the Rejoinings are also merely altering the current inhabitants of Etheirys into a different form of existence but it is very much described as an act of genocide.

It does not suddenly cease to be genocide because the individual conducting such happens to be a pretty mother goddess figure who refers to those who stand to benefit from it as 'brave little sparks'.

[Ath192]

Don't know what you mean by this?

I was just agreeing with you on the nonsense of it.

[MoofiaBossVal]

Funny how this thread started as critiquing the political set up in 6.55 but quickly turned into the "Lackluster storytelling in EW" thread.

EW is to FFXIV what the Sylvanas story was to WoW. The consequences of it are so far reaching that it is nearly impossible to escape it, and we will still be discussing it many years later.

[SoloWingMetatron]

If you want to go that deep then Meteon didn't kill anybody and most people were still alive in that ball of goo she was holding on to in Ultima Thule. Thus, she did no damage. And there was nothing final about it. They would just continue... being goo until something else happened I guess.

Now that is an interesting thought...What if Meteon and recreated the universe within her own bubble? - I guess we'll never know as it is entire speculation. However I do wonder what life would be like in her universe...Though I suspect it would be one with very little autonomy soley based on her observations made during The Dead Ends dungeon.

I was just agreeing with you on the nonsense of it.

Ahh okay, I get you - Sorry I hope I haven't came off as confrontational to you or other people in this thread. I have autism so I tend to word things in an awkward or cold manner...But want to clarify that conflict is never the intention.

That does not hold up under scrutiny, I'm afraid. As it was never Venat's intention to allow for the Ancients to follow through with the complete plan to restore themselves. The only reason she kept them around was because Zodiark was a necessary barrier against Meteion's assault and without Zodiark maintaining such a barrier Etheirys would have once again succumbed to the Final Days.

Furthermore, the Rejoinings are also merely altering the current inhabitants of Etheirys into a different form of existence but it is very much described as an act of genocide.

It does not suddenly cease to be genocide because the individual conducting such happens to be a pretty mother goddess figure who refers to those who stand to benefit from it as 'brave little sparks'.

That's a fair point sir - Though I would argue that it is not technically genocide if the sundered life has not actualy ceased to exist and some memory retention has been shown...Surely it has merely been reformed rather than destroyed? Furthermore my understanding of the Rejoining was that each life would be restored to it's previous state...Not new Ancients but the very same old ones.

[OliverQ]

Let me reverse this for you to see if you understand the point.

2.X the WoL destroys a major milestone in the Ascians saving their civilization and restoring their society
3.X the WoL beheads the leadership of Ishgard because they wanted to go to war with the dragons, we decided we knew better and that the pope was no longer fit to lead.
4.X the WoL overturns the expansion of Garlemald to restore the independence of nations who probably at one point, conquered those lands from others as well. Does not touch the Azim steppe society even though its a warmongering society that decides leadership by brutality because they shared a common enemy, Garlemald.
5.X the WoL destroys any hope of the Ascians ever restoring the planet to the way it used to be before a rogue faction led by Hydaelyn decided to send everyone to oblivion because they didn't agree with Zodiark
6.X WoD does prevent an apocalypse by a depressive bird

We literally solved everything with violence, and good here is subjective.

Some Spoilers here, read at your own risk.




The Ascians' goal was literally to wipe out all life on the Source and every shard so they could bring back a "paradise" they screwed up and didn't deserve to have anymore. You can not seriously claim they were in the right in any of this story. We can question the morality of what Venat did with the Sundering, but what Emet-Selch and the others wanted wasn't any better. He doesn't even think any other living beings deserve to exist, because they're not perfect and there is nothing wrong with murdering them.

The Archbishop and the 4 houses spent centuries peddling a lie about the founding of Ishgard that guaranteed an aristocracy while the rest of the people suffered and lived in poverty. They declared war against the Dragons ages ago by murdering Ratotaskr, and now they're facing the consequences. Getting rid of the Archbishop and his evil knights was the correct action.

Garlemald and the Emperor were clearly evil and they were part of the Ascians plan to destroy the Source and its reflections. Again, stopping Garlemald was correct.


Why should the Ascians get to restore the planet they ruined, at the expense of everyone who currently exists? The Ascians had their chance, and they failed. So you think it's ok that they want to murder millions of people on the Source and all reflections?


Sorry, but your entire argument here is "It's totally cool if the Ascians want to go full mass-murder to bring back the good 'ol days because they don't think anyone in existence today deserves to live." That's not a good thing and I'm glad we were able to stop them.

[OdinelStarrei]

EW is to FFXIV what the Sylvanas story was to WoW. The consequences of it are so far reaching that it is nearly impossible to escape it, and we will still be discussing it many years later.

Wait, hold on! If we can just jump to the Eighth Umbral Calamity timeline, most things CAN be escaped! Scions? Dead. Garleans? Also dead! City-states I don't really care about? Dissolved, or fractions of their original importance. Side characters from storylines I actually liked? MIGHT be alive! Stakes? It's a doomed world, people are probably BEING staked at this present moment! Venat? Doing nothing apparently! Killing Elidibus for the fourth time? Absolutely plausible, they'd love to play the Amaurot lemotif again. Midgardsomr is awake? Let's go. Put us in future-Meracydia for even extra detachment.

We can't escape the origin, nor it's consequences, but can we pretend anyway?

[Ath192]

Some Spoilers here, read at your own risk.




The Ascians' goal was literally to wipe out all life on the Source and every shard so they could bring back a "paradise" they screwed up and didn't deserve to have anymore. You can not seriously claim they were in the right in any of this story. We can question the morality of what Venat did with the Sundering, but what Emet-Selch and the others wanted wasn't any better. He doesn't even think any other living beings deserve to exist, because they're not perfect and there is nothing wrong with murdering them.

The Archbishop and the 4 houses spent centuries peddling a lie about the founding of Ishgard that guaranteed an aristocracy while the rest of the people suffered and lived in poverty. They declared war against the Dragons ages ago by murdering Ratotaskr, and now they're facing the consequences. Getting rid of the Archbishop and his evil knights was the correct action.

Garlemald and the Emperor were clearly evil and they were part of the Ascians plan to destroy the Source and its reflections. Again, stopping Garlemald was correct.


Why should the Ascians get to restore the planet they ruined, at the expense of everyone who currently exists? The Ascians had their chance, and they failed. So you think it's ok that they want to murdered millions of people on the Source and all reflections?


Sorry, but your entire argument here is "It's totally cool if the Ascians want to go full mass-murder to bring back the good 'ol days because they don't think anyone in existence today deserves to live." That's not a good thing and I'm glad we were able to stop them.

Proving the point, you drank the koolaid they fed you in the games narrative, and now you think we did the right thing. All it would really take to flip you is for the games narrative to change to you being a WoL rejoining the souls of your lost species that was destroyed by an evil witch hydaelyn, and how this terrible ascian is preventing your plans and trying to kill you so you don't achieve your goals.

You re-skin the people of the sundered worlds to look like horrible zombies and monsters that your once beautiful race were so you don't feel any attachment to them and now you'd be on the ascians side. It's completely subjective. Just because what you see is there as beautiful and someone is trying to change it does not make them wrong or you right.

You were trying to save people, the ascians were trying to save people, meteon was trying to save people. Everyone was trying to save everyone around there.

[Denji]

alphinaud got his ass kicked at the end of ARR for trying to take political shit into his own hands and now we're doing it again

also i hate how the female hrothgar speaks.

[Mithron]

I was the most hyped after ARR amazing ending and upcoming HW.

I was very hyped after the very good HW ending and upcoming SB.

I was pretty hyped after the okay SB ending and upcoming SHB.

I wasn't very hyped after the lackluster SHB ending and upcoming EW.

I have no hype at all after the terrible EW ending and upcoming DT.