Feedback: Feeling disappointed by 6.55's narrative, and thus unsure about Dawntrail

[Swordsman]

Like I said in another thread, this whole world is controlled by political leaders installed or backed by the scions of the seventh dawn. And we are an overpowered god with no equal among the planet anymore. Stuff just doesn't make sense and even though we portray it as fighting for good the truth is we have taken over the world and there is noone that can oppose our will.

IDK about you but I don't feel like an adventurer and this doesn't feel like fun anymore. We are an oppressor, and there is no nation that has been able to withstand our expansion.

Nice stuff SE. If we make it pretty and talk about doing it for the right reasons we good though.

Yep, perfect example of the old saying: "Might makes right."

"Descriptively, it asserts that a society's view of right and wrong is determined by those in power, with a meaning similar to "History is written by the victors." That is, although all people have their personal ideas of the good, only those strong enough to overcome obstacles and enemies can put their ideas into effect, and spread their own standards to society at large."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Might_...e%20victors%22.

[Ath192]

Yep, perfect example of the old saying: "Might makes right."

"Descriptively, it asserts that a society's view of right and wrong is determined by those in power, with a meaning similar to "History is written by the victors." That is, although all people have their personal ideas of the good, only those strong enough to overcome obstacles and enemies can put their ideas into effect, and spread their own standards to society at large."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Might_...e%20victors%22.

Agreed, I'm not huge on the morality of empires personally, they come and go, conquer, destroy and build, what doesn't feel fun for me is that we are at such an endstage in our power levels that we are Thanos with all infinity stones equipped and no time travel discovered.

TBH I don't know if you know the story of the Aztecs but essentially:

" Meanwhile, Cortes was planning to conquer the Aztec empire. He
started out toward their major city, Tenochtitlan (the-nock-TEE-tlan). It
was where Mexico City is today. Along the way, Cortes fought and
defeated the local natives. Some of these Indians were more hostile to
the Aztecs than to Cortes. They helped him in his attack on the Aztec
empire."

In this case we have a local native bringing in another outside power to seize the throne by force in this contest. What little they know is that because they have done this now they will be beholden to us and they will only think they are in power when in reality we will be. Not dissimilar to the Indians that helped Cortes take out their other local enemies, surely hoping they would get something out of it (they didn't). So if they wanted to avoid the look of colonialism, they kinda failed, and quite frankly, conquest happens everywhere, so that's not entirely the issue. To me the issue is that the WOL is involved its already GG for the other side.

There is literally nothing we can't murder by brute force that will prevent Wuk or whoever we bless with that throne. And then Alphinaud will teach them the right way to lead, probably.

It would've been a lot better if we simply got a native explorer looking for people daring enough to find a lost city or something and we left the government out of it.

[SoloWingMetatron]

Like I said in another thread, this whole world is controlled by political leaders installed or backed by the scions of the seventh dawn. And we are an overpowered god with no equal among the planet anymore. Stuff just doesn't make sense and even though we portray it as fighting for good the truth is we have taken over the world and there is noone that can oppose our will.

IDK about you but I don't feel like an adventurer and this doesn't feel like fun anymore. We are an oppressor, and there is no nation that has been able to withstand our expansion.

Nice stuff SE. If we make it pretty and talk about doing it for the right reasons we good though.

Yep, perfect example of the old saying: "Might makes right."

"Descriptively, it asserts that a society's view of right and wrong is determined by those in power, with a meaning similar to "History is written by the victors." That is, although all people have their personal ideas of the good, only those strong enough to overcome obstacles and enemies can put their ideas into effect, and spread their own standards to society at large."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Might_...e%20victors%22.

Except this does not accurately depict the WoL's story at all...

- 2.x - WoL saves the known world from the Garleans/Ascians attempt to bring about a new Calamity.
- 3.x - WoL further preventing Garlean/Ascian attempts to bring about Calamity - Prevents all out war between Dragons and Ishgard by toppling a dictator pope and his knights who like to throw kids off cathedrals.
- 4.x - WoL yet again thwarts Garlean/Ascian attempts for another Calamity - Helps free the enslaved Ala Mhigans by destroying Garlean/Ascian presence in that region.
- 5.x - WoD saves a whole planet from destruction by holding back a Calamity caused by Ascians.
- 6.x - WoL literally prevents the Apocalyse.

None of the WoL's acts have anything to do with oppression...Had the WoL not acted in these moments the world would literally have ended multiple times over!

[Swordsman]

Except this does not accurately depict the WoL's story at all...

- 2.x - WoL saves the known world from the Garleans/Ascians attempt to bring about a new Calamity.
- 3.x - WoL further preventing Garlean/Ascian attempts to bring about Calamity - Prevents all out war between Dragons and Ishgard by toppling a dictator pope and his knights who like to throw kids off cathedrals.
- 4.x - WoL yet again thwarts Garlean/Ascian attempts for another Calamity - Helps free the enslaved Ala Mhigans by destroying Garlean/Ascian presence in that region.
- 5.x - WoD saves a whole planet from destruction by holding back a Calamity caused by Ascians.
- 6.x - WoL literally prevents the Apocalyse.

None of the WoL's acts have anything to do with oppression...Had the WoL not acted in these moments the world would literally have ended multiple times over!

Yeah, you're right. We didn't oppress our enemies, we just killed them. Lmao.

[Metalface_Villain]

Yeah, you're right. We didn't oppress our enemies, we just killed them. Lmao.

what you guys are saying is similar to someone killing the nazis and then we call them oppressors because they killed the genocidal maniacs xD ironically enough irl america did take their place and became the global oppressors but still you can't call them oppressors for killing pure evil mofos that wanted to do nothing but evil. furthermore the wol never used their power other than to defeat the bad guys of the game, they didn't turn into modern day america. you guys are way off with the oppressor thing but you are right that this obviously doesn't feel like an adventure because we are extremely overpowered, that's a pretty bad direction to take the game but there really isn't another way to go, the game should have ended after ew tbh, with ff17 taking it's place and a new adventure starting from scratch.

[Ath192]

Except this does not accurately depict the WoL's story at all...

- 2.x - WoL saves the known world from the Garleans/Ascians attempt to bring about a new Calamity.
- 3.x - WoL further preventing Garlean/Ascian attempts to bring about Calamity - Prevents all out war between Dragons and Ishgard by toppling a dictator pope and his knights who like to throw kids off cathedrals.
- 4.x - WoL yet again thwarts Garlean/Ascian attempts for another Calamity - Helps free the enslaved Ala Mhigans by destroying Garlean/Ascian presence in that region.
- 5.x - WoD saves a whole planet from destruction by holding back a Calamity caused by Ascians.
- 6.x - WoL literally prevents the Apocalyse,

None of the WoL's acts have anything to do with oppression...Had the WoL not acted in these moments the world would literally have ended multiple times over!

Let me reverse this for you to see if you understand the point.

2.X the WoL destroys a major milestone in the Ascians saving their civilization and restoring their society
3.X the WoL beheads the leadership of Ishgard because they wanted to go to war with the dragons, we decided we knew better and that the pope was no longer fit to lead.
4.X the WoL overturns the expansion of Garlemald to restore the independence of nations who probably at one point, conquered those lands from others as well. Does not touch the Azim steppe society even though its a warmongering society that decides leadership by brutality because they shared a common enemy, Garlemald.
5.X the WoL destroys any hope of the Ascians ever restoring the planet to the way it used to be before a rogue faction led by Hydaelyn decided to send everyone to oblivion because they didn't agree with Zodiark
6.X WoD does prevent an apocalypse by a depressive bird

We literally solved everything with violence, and good here is subjective.

[SoloWingMetatron]

Yeah, you're right. We didn't oppress our enemies, we just killed them. Lmao.

Damn right!....Had we not the world would no longer exist!!...."Lmao - I was the only one who could prevent the world from literally exploding but chose not to because you know...I didnt want to kill the thing causing it"....

Let me reverse this for you to see if you understand the point.

Snip.

2.X the WoL destroys a major milestone in the Ascians saving their civilization and restoring their society

- This is the only credible critique to the WoL's actions. If the Ascians were the "true" selves of all intelligent life...Then there is an argument to be made that the Ascians goals were what was "good "all along...But as you said what is "good" is subjective

3.X the WoL beheads the leadership of Ishgard because they wanted to go to war with the dragons, we decided we knew better and that the pope was no longer fit to lead.

- Ishgards leadership was clearly depicted as corrupt through out - Murdering and enslaving civilians and were the reason the war began to begin with. It clearly shows the Dragons never asked for war!

4.X the WoL overturns the expansion of Garlemald to restore the independence of nations who probably at one point, conquered those lands from others as well. Does not touch the Azim steppe society even though its a warmongering society that decides leadership by brutality because they shared a common enemy, Garlemald.

- Garlemald ran by an Ascian in disguise that has ensalved an entire population...You are critiquing the WoL for ending slavery of Ala Mhigans and giving them back autonomy?...
*"restore the independence of nations who probably at one point, conquered those lands from others as well." - Fan fiction/speculation isn't a defense

5.X the WoL destroys any hope of the Ascians ever restoring the planet to the way it used to be before a rogue faction led by Hydaelyn decided to send everyone to oblivion because they didn't agree with Zodiark

- See point 1

6.X WoD does prevent an apocalypse by a depressive bird

- So in spite of everything had the WoL not acted everything would have ended no matter what and there would be no existence for 7.0 to even take place,

[Ath192]

Damn right!....Had we not the world would no longer exist!!....

- So in spite of everything had the WoL not acted everything would have ended no matter what and there would be no existence for 7.0 to even take place,

Believe it or not, Zodiark prevented the final days. The solution just wasn't agreed upon by everyone. So no, the WoL wasn't even the reason the world ended or was saved to begin with.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Believe it or not, Zodiark prevented the final days. The solution just wasn't agreed upon by everyone. So no, the WoL wasn't even the reason the world ended or was saved to begin with.

At the expense of most of the ancient population.

[Ath192]

At the expense of most of the ancient population.

Does it matter when the alternative Hydaelyn chose was to genocide the entire world effective immediately? Or do you see any more than a dozen ascians survive this apocalypse Hydaelyn actually succeeded in creating.