/r/ffxivdiscussion: Has FFXIV had any major retcons or plot holes in the story?

[Swordsman]

Crossposting this over from the r/ffxivdiscussion subreddit because it has some interesting perspectives on the story of FFXIV as a whole, and it makes for a very interesting read.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Original Post: "This question comes in the wake of a conversation I was having with a friend regarding the most recent WoW patch, which contained story content that was riddled with characterization issues (writers essentially making characters make decisions that were out of character) and a retcon or two, which is a Blizzard favorite.

My friend took a stance that it's excusable because MMORPG stories that span so many years are hard to keep consistent with previous lore. I argued that FFXIV hasn't had this sort of issue, and that SE puts forward a pretty great effort in making sure everything makes sense (even if people don't like it at times). Of course, "citation needed", but I was wondering if I'm just misremembering or if the writers at SE actually do a great job of not having to retcon stuff or leave plot holes wide open?"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some notable comments:

"You can't tell me that Yda actually being Lyse wasn't a retcon. It even makes cutscenes like Moenbryda's introduction kinda uncomfortable."

-----------------------------------------

"The biggest one is that in ARR there's this one scene with a bunch of ascians plotting or whatever, and I don't remember the details but that scene makes absolutely no sense considering what we know today of them. It's an issue of the devs having no plans for them at the time beyond "evil bad guys doing spooky stuff".

(I think the "retconned" part is that some of the ones present in that scene should be dead by all accounts, and have never appeared in the story beyond that one scene)"

-----------------------------------------

"I can think of a few.

The echo/blessing of light has gone through like three or four significant retcons, from stepping into people's memories to change the past, to just seeing the past/xenoglossy + tempering immunity, to specifically having the power to weaken the servants of darkness.

Are they the same thing, are they both gifts from Hydaelyn, or are they different things and only one of these abilities is a gift from Hydaelyn. And what exactly do the Crystals of Light given to Warriors of Light do?

When Venat says the Traveler's Ward blocks aetheric tampering, is she referring to tempering, light corruption, or both?

Another was the three forms of aether. In 1.0-2.0, it was Corporeal, Soul, and Anima, with the last one being the resource people drew upon to use aetherytes. It slowly regenerated over time, and even served a mechanical function in putting a cooldown timer on aetheryte teleportation. I think this is still even named by some NPCs hanging around low level zones. HW will make a nod in name only to Anima in the 'Anima weapons' relic questline, which is about creating and nurturing an 'artificial soul' within our weapons using our experiences as an adventurer. And I think that's it. 5.1 and 5.2 will retcon the three forms as aether as Corporeal, Mind, and Soul. And that detail is at the center of how we're able to undo the effects of light corruption and tempering (once again conflating these two things. Very helpful).

I think somewhere there's conflicting information about how far in the past the Bozja incident was, but I cannot remember where. I would not be surprised if some of this is from 1.0.

Nael vas Darnus. That is all."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...plot_holes_in/

Feel free to discuss amongst yourselves below.

[CaptainLagbeard]

There's not really been any major retcons...

I think the scene with the Ascians in question I think there was that one where you had a whole bunch of them standing in some hall... Way more than there should really be...

[Carin-Eri]

Arguable whether this one is a retcon or simply a plot point that was simply left hanging:
Zodiark's Crystal - which I've seen referred to as the 'FatherCrystal' (assume this is a fanon name since I don't remember any in-game dialogue that referred to it as such):


Although it was last seen just about visible beneath Zodiark's platform during 'The Dark Inside' I don't recall that there was any explanation regarding what purpose it served and what happened to it (following the Dark Inside trial). I mean, it's probably fair to assume that it served much the same purpose as the Mothercrystal, but I don't think it was ever confirmed one way or the other.

[Turtledeluxe]

I'm not sure if I'd say recons but the story in general is made up as they go which can sometimes cause inconsistencies, contradictions, or otherwise problematic situations that just don't need to exist in the storytelling. The most infamous one I can think of is the cliche take that Venat is genocidal because the writers decided at the end of the arc to add in a time loop where she theoretically could have prevented the future. The take is incorrect because the writers clarify via Elidibus the type of time travel they're using for this single instance is one where the past and present become conjoined, making everything up to our journey to Elpis locked into the timeline i.e. no one including Venat can change it, no matter how hard they did or didn't try. They can only affect/change what happens post journey. You can pull all sorts of other instances in the game that make this ambiguous (thus, inconsistency) which is ultimately weakening the storytelling when it just didn't need to be that way.

And Yoshi P's own statements about it make it very clear, imo, they do not think about consistency on any particularly deep level and reserve it for obvious and simplistic elements.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Emmerololth was seen briefly in a scene in ARR in the Rift with the rest of the Ascians. A later scene in Eureka shows that she was killed before that scene took place. Whether a retcon or just a mistake is unclear.

[Jeeqbit]

There was a retcon which was 1.0. They tried to salvage as much of it as they possibly could, but they didn't manage all of it. They didn't retcon the Circle of Knowing, but they virtually are all doing the same thing with no evolution 5 years later. They redid a lot of the 1.0 fights 5 years later in 2.0 by saying there were remains ie. of Bahamut or recreations or survivors that we didn't know about. They redid the dungeons by just saying they are overrun with creatures again since it's been years.

In most cases, instead of retconning, what they did was to evolve it in the lore. For example, they say that materia used to work differently, but advancements in society meant it was simpler now.

In the case of Lyse (and all the other scions for that matter), they didn't retcon them, but they did have a problem with them, which was that they were all the same. In order to solve this, they made them all disappear at the end of 2.5, to eventually return with unique disabilities or, arguably, super powers.

• Thancred returns with the inability to use magic, thus making him focus on his physical prowess.
• Y'shtola returns blind, thus causing her to use magic to see aether, which becomes something of a super power that helps us greatly in the story.
• Yda returns as Lyse, with a backstory relating the Ala Mhigo.
• Minfilia returns as part of Hydaelyn.
• Urianger was already unique. He was the book guy that knows everything, so required no changes other than maybe to fight.
• They killed off the ones they couldn't do anything else with or make different to Urianger: Papalymo and Moenbryda

All the characters since then are new, including Alphinaud and Alisaie.

"The biggest one is that in ARR there's this one scene with a bunch of ascians plotting or whatever, and I don't remember the details but that scene makes absolutely no sense considering what we know today of them. It's an issue of the devs having no plans for them at the time beyond "evil bad guys doing spooky stuff".

(I think the "retconned" part is that some of the ones present in that scene should be dead by all accounts, and have never appeared in the story beyond that one scene)"

Some of them appear in sidequests, including job quests (for example, you kill a load of Ascians in the Summoner quests, effectively explaining how many of the non-red mask Ascians die). There is also the one in the Eden quests.

As we know, only two red mask Ascians guinely survived the sundering with their full power intact and maybe Elidibus but of course he was a primal by then, so the other red-mask Ascians died like Ardbert did to become souls that inhabit flesh on a shard of their choice but weren't as powerful as the unsundered ones who never died (Lahabrea and Emet).

And the difference between the red-mask and non-red mask Ascians, of course, is purely that the ones with red masks were part of the Convocation. In terms of actual power, the one in the Eden quests wasn't necessarily anymore powerful than the throwaway Ascians we kill in the Summoner quests, aside from Arcane knowledge they would have remembered from being imbued with the memories from their Convocation crystal. Except, of course, they merge with Gaia and have the power of Eden at their disposal which is what makes them as strong as they are.

Let's not forget that even if there were red-masked Ascians that we didn't fight, there were other ways in which they could have died: Shadowhunter, Ardbert and other Warriors of Light on the various shards.

The echo/blessing of light has gone through like three or four significant retcons, from stepping into people's memories to change the past, to just seeing the past/xenoglossy + tempering immunity, to specifically having the power to weaken the servants of darkness.

The Echo allows you to see the past. It allows you to benefit from Hindsight without having any, by seeing their past.

However, what we know of The Echo now is it doesn't necessarily protect you from the aetherial corruption aspect of tempering. You're just less likely to get put into petrified state and walk towards the attack that will temper you because you can Remember who you are and come to.

What protects us from the aetherial corruption is The Blessing of Light, a complete collection of all the elements, something that is replicated by Nidhana to protect everyone, just like we get a specific element to allow Cid to break through Garuda's barrier.

Yet, we tell Arenvald he is safe because he has The Echo. So maybe Hydaelyn did give a lighter blessing still, or maybe primal tempering was never that much of a threat if you were simply a good fighter. The Company of Heroes seem to suggest that if you are just good at being a team, you can defeat a primal even without these gifts (it's not made clear if they have any gifts, I think).

I think the most legitimate retcon here is this. The difference between The Echo and The Blessing having been unclear throughout the game. Effects that are supposed to be granted by The Blessing are sometimes explained by The Echo both in the story and as status effects in battles.

[Chasingstars]

Tural, aka the new world, was originally called Mamook until Dawntrail.

[Oizen]

Remember when Y'shtola using her aethervision was killing her?
I can't wait for that to never come up again

[Sove92]

However, what we know of The Echo now is it doesn't necessarily protect you from the aetherial corruption aspect of tempering. You're just less likely to get put into petrified state and walk towards the attack that will temper you because you can Remember who you are and come to.

What protects us from the aetherial corruption is The Blessing of Light, a complete collection of all the elements, something that is replicated by Nidhana to protect everyone, just like we get a specific element to allow Cid to break through Garuda's barrier.

Yet, we tell Arenvald he is safe because he has The Echo. So maybe Hydaelyn did give a lighter blessing still, or maybe primal tempering was never that much of a threat if you were simply a good fighter. The Company of Heroes seem to suggest that if you are just good at being a team, you can defeat a primal even without these gifts (it's not made clear if they have any gifts, I think).

I think the most legitimate retcon here is this. The difference between The Echo and The Blessing having been unclear throughout the game. Effects that are supposed to be granted by The Blessing are sometimes explained by The Echo both in the story and as status effects in battles.

Hydaelyn grants her blessing to anyone who listens to her call, which led to peope believing the echo is what does it. This does leave us with the matter of defeating two primals (Ravana, Bismarck) without the blessing tho. Tho if I remember correctly, the block was aready being broken at the time of Ravana. Or the block was for something else entirely.

[Fawkes]

The Echo allows you to see the past. It allows you to benefit from Hindsight without having any, by seeing their past.

It was not always clear what was going on, if you were just seeing that past or actually going to it. Like that time we gave Cid his goggles.