Okay they weren't lying about the relic

[Supersnow845]

You are comparing soloing exploring a large open zone with something that has an exclusive title. The two are not even close to the same.



No, not at all. The lack of accessibility comes in a lot of ways for those zones. But at this point it seems like you two really just don't care.

I’m still genuinely trying to figure out where this accessibility comes from, if not being punished for wanting to do it solo makes it more accessible then it’s inherently a criteria for what counts as accessible

[LalafellDown]

I skipped this relic entirely. I hear Yoshi P praise it because a lot more people did the relic. I have no desire to do it because it’s just story, not even an interesting story. Would’ve rather time traveled with the crystal tower to do relics.

[Nihility]

I skipped this relic entirely. I hear Yoshi P praise it because a lot more people did the relic. I have no desire to do it because it’s just story, not even an interesting story. Would’ve rather time traveled with the crystal tower to do relics.

that's kind of the same logic as netflix claiming the movie that starts autoplaying if you start the app and walk away was a giant record breaking blockbuster

[sagacious]

Yea I have to join in on the tomestones preferers side. The rest are ABYSMAL to get and no, I don't think the amount of time it takes to do them equals the idea of a worthwhile investment. Tomestones on the other hand I can easily get by just doing roulettes and easily get them, especially since they're comedy which is easy to get.

I have to get on this band wagon. Tombstones make me happier than doing a savage and getting a nervous breakdown or a grind so hard I quit the game like Zepla did

[Mikey_R]

Sorry, but being able to log in on patch day and spend 30 seconds to buy the tome items and get the weapon day 1 with no effort is not fun. The whole idea behind the relic weapons was they were meant to be a grind. Rather than requiring skill to obtain a strong weapon, you traded time instead.

Just to compare to other weapons, Savage weapons require skill to beat the final floor, Exquisite weapons require you to clear Criterion Savage, another skill check as well as requiring 500 capped tomestones and an item which still requires you to at least clear floor 3 of savage (though it will be obtainable outside savage at some point before 7.0). Current relic require 6000 uncapped tomes, if you were to do one from scratch, though most will do them as each step comes. Just to put the 6000 tomes into perspective, you can do all your roulettes each day and have the weapon within a week.

The main thing that annoys me about this weapon is it is passive. You do not need to go out of your way to obtain it, it is just something you pick up along the way. Because of that, there is nothing inherently special about these weapons. Now, you might claim, you just want it to show off and to that I say....YES. It is a symbol that I have put in the work and dedication to getting the weapon, just like the savage/ultimate weapons are symbols for people that have cleared those fights. The earlier you get the item, the better. You might claim it is just me lording it over everyone else, but that isn't the case. It is a symbol to show my dedication to the game. That time when you could say, yes, I have grinded out 2-3 current weapons and people were amazed about you could stomach the grind.

The relic weapon being a grind was part of the appeal for a lot of people. However, the grind is not for everyone. If it isn't for you, just don't do the weapon. However, another issue people tend to have is they assume you have to sit and grind out the weapon in one hit, which is far from the case. Alot of them you could do in your own time and make progress when you had some spare time. In effect, it was a time filler.

To go onto past weapons being tome dumps, especially the HW relic, that just was not the case at the time of release plus, any tome grind was either complemented by either another, non tome way to get the items (though often a bit slower) or there were other things you had to get alongside the tomes so there wasn't really a benefit to just pure grind out the tomes. Which meant you could spread out that tome grind over a longer time. If required, I could break down all the 'tome' steps on release and show you that it was more than just a tome grind.

We have a tome weapon, we do not need a second one.

[Kaedys]

We have a tome weapon, we do not need a second one.

We don't really, though. The only weapons purchasable with tomes are upgrades off of crafted items, which are always solidly behind on itemlevel and a patch behind, or normal-mode raid weapons, the latter are which are primarily gated by raid drops, not tomes. You can earn more than the tome cost of 6 normal-mode raid weapons in the 7 weeks it takes to farm the drops for a single raid weapon from the once-per-week drop from normal mode raids. Yes, the completed token also drops from savage, but if you're running savage, that weapon's just a pitstop until you're clearing the 4th fight in that tier anyway. This is from the perspective of a sub-savage player, where the gating on that weapon is the 7 weekly drops required, not the tomes.

Relic weapons are the "catch up weapons" for more casual players, and requiring utterly insane grinds like some of the ShB relic steps is not particularly conducive to that role. With tomes, I can at least choose the type of content I want to get them from, which is particularly important if I'm trying to farm a number of them. I remember running into someone on my first ShB relic, several months before EW dropped, when I was farming HW fates for it. We grouped up until I got my 20 Memories for that zone, and as I was getting ready to head out, they indicated that they had approximately 40 of the 200 Memories that they were farming, thrice, for a bunch of relics.

Sorry, but the idea of farming 600 fates with half my kit gone because we're synced to 50-60 is actually torturous. And that was just one step. I'll take the relic grind over that nonsense without a second thought.

[Erzaa]

Bozja definitely has it's failings, but that's why they should've improved upon them.

The entire ShB relic process gave us alternatives for each step that could be done outside of Bozja. The biggest failing was that the alternative step for DR and just them refusing to future proof DR.

DR should not take 10 mins to queue into it with 8 people, and the timeworns from PotD should be increased + guaranteed.

They're almost definitely guaranteed after floor 100. It's actually longer to do the later step that drops from HoH than PotD because you have less floors. It's much easier to go through 100-150 which are easy floors and get an almost guaranteed drop, and probably get a few here and there climbing to 100 in the first place, compared to having to get past floor 50 in HoH where the drop rate is abysmal, because then you only have 60 and 70 and 80 to get a drop almost guaranteed, before you're likely to die on floors 80+.

That was my experience at least.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

[...]To go onto past weapons being tome dumps, especially the HW relic, that just was not the case at the time of release plus, any tome grind was either complemented by either another, non tome way to get the items (though often a bit slower) or there were other things you had to get alongside the tomes so there wasn't really a benefit to just pure grind out the tomes. Which meant you could spread out that tome grind over a longer time. If required, I could break down all the 'tome' steps on release and show you that it was more than just a tome grind[...]

Even if one decide to take on Anima relic purely using poetic (meaning no script, no GC seals, etc), they'd require 299,000 - 305,500 poetics to acquire all 13 weapons as opposed to EW's 6,000 x 19 = 114,000 poetics, which just pales in comparison in term of effort required. If that's still not enough, Anima still have 3 steps that doesn't involve any poetic usage.

[Mikey_R]

We don't really, though. The only weapons purchasable with tomes are upgrades off of crafted items, which are always solidly behind on itemlevel and a patch behind, or normal-mode raid weapons, the latter are which are primarily gated by raid drops, not tomes.

To point out, again, the tome weapon will be upgradable outside of savage at some point before 7.0, though only to i660, which is inline with every other expansion.

On the case of relic weapons, they have NEVER been classed as catch up weapons. The grind for them was too much for them to be classed as catch up weapons, until the current weapons that is. The catch up weapons would have been the older tome weapons, in this case, spending 500 tomes of causality and clearing P8 4 times for a weapon, which you can then use to clear p12, this is assuming you don't want to use crafted weapons.

The only reason they feel like catch up weapons now is because they are so easy to get. The only reason you don't see the tome weapons as a reasonable option is because the relic weapons are so easy to get. You just have to wait a bit before the step gets released compared to the savage weapons. However, why should the tome weapon be an inferior option to the relic? Why is it that the last step of the relic has made that weapon all but redundant. The tome weapon was there for those who didn't want to do savage and who didn't want to spend the time doing a relic weapon, but now, that is gone.

And, to talk about the ShB fate grind, you could have done the grind in Bozja and progressed in there, which you needed to do anyway, so it was more efficient, at least for your first weapon. You also aren't going to shock me in people doing multiple relics as I am also someone who does multiple relics and does, infact have complete collections of all ARR, HW, ShB and soon EW with a fair amount of progress made on the SB weapons. I am a glutton for a good grind and the relics provided me with that grind. It was always something I could work on between patches. Whilst people were out there crying they had nothing to do, I was making progress on my relic weapons. Which leads onto another point. The whole, there is nothing to do. Yes, that is because they took out one of the biggest sources of people's time, grinding out a relic. Again, this isn't something you needed to necessarily hardcore grind out, but you could make progress at a steady pace and easily get the weapon before the next patch.

The weapon just doesn't do what it is meant to do.

[AnnRam]

This
When I want mindless grinding, I might as well play WoW

See?
This is why the game its on the current state.

No grind.
No difficulty
Less content per patch
Boring jobs etc.