Can we have an honest conversation about the Scions? Dawn Trail

[Eldtagg]

I disagree with the Scions leaving.

I like them a lot, and I'll even go so far as to say that having one of the Scions as the WoL would have made Final Fantasy XIV better from the start for me. My character an ordinary adventurer/friend who strolled beside them in their quest.

When I first played Heavensward, my first thought was that Alphinaud would have been an excellent choice as the WoL because we travel a lot together, he is on his quest to grow up, and I'm kind of like his big brother.

It would have rounded out my character a little more rather than pigeonholing me into being "the good guy who saves the world by themselves" as my only personality trait.

Let someone else be the WoL now, and I'll be their closest friend.

[Aravell]

Personally, I don't hate the Scions, but they are getting a bit stale after spending so long with them. Wouldn't Dawntrail also work just fine as a Students of Baldesion venture where we only have Krile and G'raha with us? Did we really need all of the Scions coming with too?

[Hazama999]

People like familiarity and consistency. Its a type of comfort where you can come back later and the characters are still there.

If you want to retire those characters, you need to do so slowly, all the while introducing new characters. Then later you bring those retired characters back for the short term instances.

If you try to do it suddenly with a character that is now out the picture with little explanation, it makes that piece of entertainment feel less interesting to those people, and in turn makes people hate the new characters who they see as taking their place.

I believe that is ultimately the reason why people are hesitant to let them go.

Familiarity.

These are character who we've gotten to know over the course of 10 years (longer for legacy players), and they've taken a life of their own. Hell, Alphinaud feels like a little brother to me, especially after all he went through in ARR and HW, so he does hold a special place in my heart. I must, however, recognize that he has reached a point in his characterization where... I really wouldn't mind if he went off to do his own thing for a year or two. I say this because, from a literary standpoint, it just... isn't very interesting to me to keep interacting with a character who has reached a stable plateau in their characterization.

I also do agree that if they were ever to be phased out, this would have to be done gradually... And to be clear, I don't mean that I want the Scions just GONE altogether. I'd just like there to be a more consistent spotlight on a new set of characters from different walks of life and different struggles.

[Gyson]

I thought we were done with them. Here is the thing, one of the reasons I'm less excited about dawntrail is because I was seriously under the impression that they were going to phase out the scions and introduce a new cast. It was the perfect opportunity to do so. For example, the scions disband and go about their desires and they can even make the occasional cameo.

Like, is it just me or wouldn't the story be much more exciting if we took the trip to the new world with just Erenville and that hrothgal and the trailers showed mysterious new characters we will meet along the way? That would be so much better...

There is nothing remarkable about the scions... I don't hate them, but TBH they are just not characters that I couldn't live without. A bunch of them have the personality of a wet mop and are all just about doing good... and yeah, cuz being good is good and what not.

Ugh, I don't know if SE believes this cast is more marketable than it actually is.. I feel like at least in my social circles, the scions are just people players put up with to play the game, they don't look forward to seeing what they're up to next. I could also be wrong, but idk, maybe a discussion forms around this. I am firmly in the new cast territory. Seeing the scions be a major part in Dawn Trail made me roll my eyes.

This just doesn't feel like a new beginning. And a lot of it is because of them.

I just couldn't disagree more. I adore the Scions as characters and feel like we've finally reached the point where we can simply enjoy the payout of all their previous character building. Urianger, for example, putting all that frustrating secrecy behind him and finally being all-in as a friend. For once the Scions feel like a harmonious, functional family we can count on and enjoy adventures with. Each time we get a new story update the primary reason I'm excited for it is because I feel like I get to see old friends again.

Honestly, I don't know how you got the impression that the Scions were being phased out. The characters themselves made it pretty clear that they were only pretending to disband so they could try to return to their more covert roots. I do enjoy when they take recurring characters like Erenville and weave them into the existing group, but only when it's done slowly and feels natural. Setting the Scions aside and forcing a whole new team onto us out of nowhere would be a disaster.

I don't think the characters in the Scions have reached a dead end because I trust the developers can introduce new twists for each of them. They've been keeping me entertained for ten years and I'd feel silly suggesting it's time to close the curtain on the current group when I know I lack the knowledge of where things are going next. I seriously doubt the writing team is just going to set each of the Scions on cruise control and hope nobody notices. Give them more credit than that, they've certainly earned it.

[Chasingstars]

I believe that is ultimately the reason why people are hesitant to let them go.

Familiarity.

These are character who we've gotten to know over the course of 10 years (longer for legacy players), and they've taken a life of their own. Hell, Alphinaud feels like a little brother to me, especially after all he went through in ARR and HW, so he does hold a special place in my heart. I must, however, recognize that he has reached a point in his characterization where... I really wouldn't mind if he went off to do his own thing for a year or two. I say this because, from a literary standpoint, it just... isn't very interesting to me to keep interacting with a character who has reached a stable plateau in their characterization.

I also do agree that if they were ever to be phased out, this would have to be done gradually... And to be clear, I don't mean that I want the Scions just GONE altogether. I'd just like there to be a more consistent spotlight on a new set of characters from different walks of life and different struggles.

Yeah I am just speaking from experience. G'raha and Erenville are good examples of characters who are being introduced to stay in the spotlight and let older ones fade.

Tv shows, video games, card games. There are times where doing it quickly has sometimes worked. However there is others where the character was not only seen as an imposter, but due to bad writing and characterization, made what they replaced look more appealing by comparison. Which as a showrunner for example you don't want.

Like if this was a show with thirty episodes, you have the initial cast in episode 1. Then by episode 10 you introduce a new character to join the cast, then somewhere along episode 15 to 20 you have an old character leave, and the new character stays. The old character occassionally pops up in like episodes 26 and 30. As part of that transitional period from 10 to 20 is to get the audience used to the new character.

[Anarnee]

I only just started feeling CLOSE to them in ShB and I'm really enjoying their continued development, I don't want them gone. Feels like we're finally an actual team.

I would however like some of the minor Scions to get more time too.

[Lady_Silvermoon]

I think the idea was that Golbez with his four Elemental Fiends followed the logic of the Void, where everyone is disposable and all interactions based on some sort of exchange. Everyone on the "team" was ultimately out for themselves, even Golbez' idealistic dream of saving his world was decidedly his own.

Zero's refugee camp collected Voidsent akin to dust that settles under your couch it just happened with time and not explicitly. But it was a sign that she may have retained some of her humanity along with her literal humanity no? In any case, I loved her Voidsent model, wish they had used it more.



Same!!

Our group had different motivations too. Vthra wanted to find and save his sister. Y'shtola is looking for a way to travel between shards to get back to her man. Sure, we had the unified motive of not wanting armies of Voidsent showing up on our doorstep, but that doesn't really speak to why we won and why they lost. We had better fighters, better technology and stronger magic. But the moral was teamwork and not "well, you should have recruited the one and only person still capable to turning people into crystals like we did, scrub."

Compare that to the themes in Shadowbringers where even as weaker, fractured human beings, the light of hope shines so brightly in us that groups of people will labor endlessly for a future they will never see. That we will build mountains to reach the heavens, if that's what it takes to survive. And all the actions of all the characters played into these themes. They didn't tell me Emet-Selch thought we were inferior while having him take care of a sundered civilization somewhere. Quite the opposite, he treated even his own flesh and blood like garbage, so what they were telling me about him and what he was doing was consistent.

With Zero they are telling me she's heartless and selfish, but at any and every opportunity she's the literal opposite. So they take her through an arc that's not necessary as her character never really acts the way they are telling me she does for the story to work. And the villains are also not doing what they should be doing for a teamwork themed moral. They should be fighting for dominance and not working together at all, if you're gonna blame the fall of the 13th on a lack of cooperation between it's heroes, I need to see a lack of cooperation between literally anyone.

[Mostly_Raxus]

thats another issue with the scions, every character is 100% always on the same page as us, we have no conflict in the group, no tension of differing opinions, no one wanting to be more direct, we all seem to hivemind in to one plot versus having any real characters outside the collective, where is the differing alignments, where are the brute options versus the diplomatic options, where is the conflict and turmoil over choices not taken or characters at each others throats if even temporary, even the best of friends have differing views at times, the scions need to start being people not plot points.

[PercibelTheren]

I definitely disagree and it's hard for me to understand people who want the Scions, who are basically the main characters of the story and the game at this point, to go away. Especially people who want ALL of them to go away.

I agree. I honestly don't understand the hate for them. I like some of them more than others and I would love to see some old friends again (like Hoary Boulder and Coultenet) but I have no issue with continuing the story alongside them.

[Rithy255]

Scions haven't really been that important throughout the story, mainly alphinaud has been the only consistent scion alongside the WOL, HW is a good example of this it featured the scions but most of them weren't front in center, I think stormblood did this great as well, you had some scions & some new characters, not all the scions were front and center.

After HW/SB, We got to shadowbringers which was the first expansion to use the scions as the main cast consistently, This wasn't actually a bad thing especially for characters like thancred and y'shtola who've not really had a massive spot light, Endwalker seemed to make sense bringing them back as a main cast for the major story which is fine.

I'm not arguing that they should go away, but they shouldn't play major roles in every expansion, Old expansions didn't depend on scions, when they were actually used it was interesting to learn more about them and see how they changed, I think also one of the biggest Issues is everything surrounding the scions feels so low stakes, we know they will be fine, it's not sad/emotional when something happens a lot of the time, the game depends on them way too much as they got popular in shadowbringers, Let us have a new cast, or at the very least a split between some scions and some new ones, It's ok for some scions to not always play a "major" role in the story.

I'll add this in, It's not out of "disliking them" I loved their characters arcs in SHB, but its the fact the story cannot always depend on the same characters in the front and center, espically when we all know theirs no risk factor or learning new things about them anymore.