Are <5.0 main villain> fanboys also supportive of <6.1-6.5 main villain>? *SPOILERS*

[MikkoAkure]

My point point with the world of suffering was that Venat actively creates a scarcity world to actively force strife and suffering on the population. That's the the whole ponit of the sundering to make a species that has to endure short hard lives where misfortunate means death (remember the children in Ishgard freezing to death)

According to the game and written directly into the new lore book, the purpose of the Sundering isn't suffering for its own sake, it's to remove creation magicks and to turn everyone into entelechies who can face against Endsinger who was going to kill the entire universe.

It would be one thing if Venat sundered the Ancient world at the height of its power, but at the time the whole thing went down the world had already ended. Most of the Ancients were already dead or turned to Zodiark soup and until Zodiark's second act, the planet was a barren lifeless husk. Zodiark couldn't bring back all the people who died during the Final Days either. Ancient society and culture would've had to have been rebuilt by the survivors anyway and a "numerous" movement of Ancients rejected the Convocation and Zodiark and decided that they couldn't move on like this. Venat didn't make this decision by herself.

[jameseoakes]

According to the game and written directly into the new lore book, the purpose of the Sundering isn't suffering for its own sake, it's to remove creation magicks and to turn everyone into entelechies who can face against Endsinger who was going to kill the entire universe.

It would be one thing if Venat sundered the Ancient world at the height of its power, but at the time the whole thing went down the world had already ended. Most of the Ancients were already dead or turned to Zodiark soup and until Zodiark's second act, the planet was a barren lifeless husk. Zodiark couldn't bring back all the people who died during the Final Days either. Ancient society and culture would've had to have been rebuilt by the survivors anyway and a "numerous" movement of Ancients rejected the Convocation and Zodiark and decided that they couldn't move on like this. Venat didn't make this decision by herself.

Sorry exterminating an entire race to replace them with something else is never justified, Eugenics is one of the greatest evil humanity has come with and this games story goes full apologist for it. Also I don't expect the anicents to go back to how they were before the trauma of the scale of the end of days makes that unlikely but Venat robbing them of that chance was an act of evil

[MikkoAkure]

Sorry exterminating an entire race to replace them with something else is never justified, Eugenics is one of the greatest evil humanity has come with and this games story goes full apologist for it. Also I don't expect the anicents to go back to how they were before the trauma of the scale of the end of days makes that unlikely but Venat robbing them of that chance was an act of evil

Again, this was a decision agreed upon by a large enough group of Ancients that everything stopped and Elidibus had to come out of Zodiark to try to negotiate. It wasn't just Venat unilaterally changing everyone by force. The anti-Zodiark crowd were aware of and supported sundering as the only way to prevent a second coming of the Final Days and the game hasn't presented to us an alternative to stopping Endsinger since only those who can interact with dynamis can.

It was either the end of the Ancients or the end of everyone else in the universe including the Ancients. They might have come up with something else later on but we don't know that and they didn't know that. They went with the only plan that they knew had at least a small chance because you don't gamble all life on something like that.

The Ancients weren't killed and replaced either, we are them. They are our direct ancestors, not some separate people.

[jameseoakes]

Again, this was a decision agreed upon by a large enough group of Ancients that everything stopped and Elidibus had to come out of Zodiark to try to negotiate. It wasn't just Venat unilaterally changing everyone by force. The anti-Zodiark crowd were aware of and supported sundering as the only way to prevent a second coming of the Final Days and the game hasn't presented to us an alternative to stopping Endsinger since only those who can interact with dynamis can.

It was either the end of the Ancients or the end of everyone else in the universe including the Ancients. They might have come up with something else later on but we don't know that and they didn't know that. They went with the only plan that they knew had at least a small chance because you don't gamble all life on something like that.

The Ancients weren't killed and replaced either, we are them. They are our direct ancestors, not some separate people.

Sorry but forcibly remaking into a different for of life is eugenics and genocide. The fact that Venat then creates gods (and makes her self the world supreme deity) to force the peoples she makes to act how she decided they should be actively destroying the culture and people who lived before (creation magic be an intrinsic part of who they are). Honestly the whole murdering whole races and cultures to be replaces with people some fanatics decided are the only solution to a problem (as it really doesn't seem the Venat told them anything about the true end of days) is a vile plot point to pivot a games story on, it's a evil plot.

[redheadturk]

The Ancients weren't killed and replaced either, we are them. They are our direct ancestors, not some separate people.

Uh, no. They were very much a separate people. Our player characters are the cut up fragments of the original Ancients that evolved into entirely separate species from the original ancients, so yeah, they were killed and replaced.

[Lady_Silvermoon]

According to the game and written directly into the new lore book, the purpose of the Sundering isn't suffering for its own sake, it's to remove creation magicks and to turn everyone into entelechies who can face against Endsinger who was going to kill the entire universe.

It would be one thing if Venat sundered the Ancient world at the height of its power, but at the time the whole thing went down the world had already ended. Most of the Ancients were already dead or turned to Zodiark soup and until Zodiark's second act, the planet was a barren lifeless husk. Zodiark couldn't bring back all the people who died during the Final Days either. Ancient society and culture would've had to have been rebuilt by the survivors anyway and a "numerous" movement of Ancients rejected the Convocation and Zodiark and decided that they couldn't move on like this. Venat didn't make this decision by herself.

When we face Meteion we're at 9/14ths. If she divided the world to make us able to interact with dynamis, why not inform everyone of the threat and propose that solution? Not only would you have a world full of super wizards attempting to solve the actual problem. Given they only need a 1/2 reduction of themselves to control dynamis, they could have consensually reduced themselves to two parts which would have maintained far more of what they were than what she did. And it would have been done with a world of geniuses working together rather than a psycho and her 12 simps murdering everyone.

And if you want to argue that they wouldn't have done that...75% of their population gave up their lives to save their world. If there had been a way for them to make a sacrifice where no one had to die, if only they'd known about the problem, nothing about them suggests they wouldn't push through, because they were actually incredibly strong regardless of what Genocydalyn said about them.

Stop blaming the Zodiark summoning because she let that happen as she needed it both as an excuse to get her simps to sac themselves for her and to protect the planet for 12k years after she murdered everyone.

Imagine what would have happened if they listened to her and didn't summon Zodiark given she never informed them what the actual problem was or given them forewarning so they could prepare a defense ahead of time. They would have become entirely extinct. Obviously, that wasn't her goal, so she didn't really want them not to summon Zodiark. She just opposed it to create the strife needed to weaken her people so she could murder them all.

If at any point the Ancients pimp shrugged and did what Venat wanted them to do, all life in the universe would end, so clearly that wasn't her real goal. She set them up to be slaughtered.

ETA: I don't believe being able to control dynamis would be enough. I think that given the solution, people who overcame each type of despair Meteion had experienced would be needed. Like purposefully exposing someone to a disease so that they create antibodies. But had Venat informed people of the problem, and the likely solution, a portion of them could have volunteered to be sundered and run through her torture simulator to learn the lessons needed to save the universe. But instead of telling people and working with them, she took it upon herself to kill them, bury their culture and history and make herself a supreme deity. As my character said to Emet-Selch in my headcanon, "any plan that requires murdering babies in their crib is a bad plan."