We need to talk about the PC Gamer article

[Colt47]

This. People forget that this is FINAL FANTASY XIV. The whole selling point of the game is that you can go play other games. In fact, for just $13/month you can play all the other games you want (sold separately). This isn’t like WoW which enslaves you and forces you to play. FFXIV is the perfect MMO for those who play one weekend a year, so for those people, the game is absolutely flawless.

Yet they make content that is meant to accomplish the same thing as WoW and other MMOs in the form of end game savage, multiple different grind activities, and time limited rewards through PvP. Both games have the same hooks, the main difference is that FFXIV is not a property owned by Activision, which to be frank has turned into a company whose primary goal is to buy properties and suck them until their life is gone, then sell off the property once it is no longer of any use. The main thing that FFXIV needs is a way for people to make their own content and gameplay, which is sort of what Bozja did unintentionally in many ways. They had too many narrow gameplay loops in Endwalker that simply trailed off to nowhere, with no sense of unity in the content delivered outside of the savage and PvP updates.

[CNitsah]

This. People forget that this is FINAL FANTASY XIV. The whole selling point of the game is that you can go play other games. In fact, for just $13/month you can play all the other games you want (sold separately). This isn’t like WoW which enslaves you and forces you to play. FFXIV is the perfect MMO for those who play one weekend a year, so for those people, the game is absolutely flawless.

The entirety of SB and ShB patch content goes against that narrative it's just for those people. They used to known some kind of farm/shelf content was useful. Why would they lock the beast tribe quest to 3 a day if that was the case? they would allow to do 12 of the same, and wouldn't cap the tomestones to 450 if their goal was to let people get everything at their own pace. No, shelf content is the backbone of mmo, and without it, it's not a mmo anymore.

I would also add that the critics about EW patches cycle are not compared to other games or out of the blue, they're made with the previous extensions in mind. It's critics compared to the game former state. Which makes the Wow argument out of place. Did you feel feel enslaved by SB and ShB?

[Atelier-Bagur]

The entirety of SB and ShB patch content goes against that narrative it's just for those people. They used to known some kind of farm, shelf content was useful. As always, the critics about EW patches cycle are not compared to other games or out of the blue, they're made with the previous extensions in mind. It's a critics compared to the game former state. Which makes the Wow argument out of place. Did you feel feel enslaved by SB and ShB?

Going through Eureka and Bozja was kinda tortourous so in a way yes it felt enslaving? If it were fun and not just mindless grind then I would be singing a different tune

[CNitsah]

Going through Eureka and Bozja was kinda tortourous so in a way yes it felt enslaving? If it were fun and not just mindless grind then I would be singing a different tune

Sure, but my point still stand. Some kind of farm has been a part of the experience since at least SB. From what I got, HW had V1 (then V2) of the diadem that was grindy enough, and both ARR and HW relics were grindy. Some kind of grind has been part of the experience since at least 2.0. Thus telling someone that complain it's "You're wrong, you don't get the game philosophy" is a nonsense. We actually do get what the philosophy of the game was, and are not happy about the change.

For the rest I (mostly) liked both Eureka and Bozja. I understand how Eureka can be tedious, but I always thought they did Bozja good enough to not be too bad if you just want the story, after that, you can just ignore the content if you don't like it (After all, the out of Bozja option for the relic is nearly more profitable to the exception of that step that is awful with both options). The other way around is not possible. For those who liked that type of content, something is missing.

[Jojoya]

We're here because this game is a master of edging. What they give you isn't genuinely aweful but it's not good either. It'd ALMOST good. And I think that's why ppl stay. Because this game can be good and we're just hoping it will be. But be assured many many will insub in dt if it isnt. As for myself. I'll be unsubbing in February if 6.55 produces nothing of substance. I'm not singing up for 6-9 months of no content. That's ludicrous

We already know what's coming in 6.55.

The final part of the MSQ that has the lead-in for Dawntrail.

The finale to the EW Hildy story that will lead into the final stage of the EW relic (another tomestone grind).

The finale to Tataru's Grand Endeavor.

The Allied EW Tribal quests.

Eventually the XVI crossover event will get released (I'm willing to bet it will be released 3 months before DT release date, last for a month then be followed by a 2 month Moogle tomestone event. Why? formula).

If by "substance" you mean new content you'll want to repeat, you might as well unsub now. The repeatable content has already been released.

If you're interested in the rewards from the XVI crossover, come back when that starts, get whatever 6.55 content you're interested done, then unsub again until DT starts when we're going to get the same basic content formula that has worked well for the game since Stormblood.

But, again. Let's not ask Square Enix to be better, let's ask players to leave.

You're going to run into the issue of getting players to agree what "better" would be. Not everyone wants the same thing.

We know a lot of the changes have come about specifically because of player feedback. It's generally be JP feedback but considering it's a JP game that shouldn't be unexpected.

The game is what the developers choose to make it. Either you're happy with what they choose to make or you're not.

Why stay if you're not happy with what you're getting? In the futile belief that the game will suddenly become different because you want it to be different?

Game development doesn't work that way. You need to choose the games you play based on what they are, not what they might become.

Going through Eureka and Bozja was kinda tortourous so in a way yes it felt enslaving? If it were fun and not just mindless grind then I would be singing a different tune

Others enjoy that style of grind, though. The only reason those felt enslaving is because the relic weapons were gated by the zones. Even if there were alternatives to Bozja for memory grinding, it's Bozja that's going to be related to the ShB relics in player minds.

Personally, I didn't feel enslaved because I'm not into grinds for shiny weapons. I didn't do Eureka when it was current though I went back with a FC group during Shadowbringers to see the story (what little there was). I gave Bozja a try for story as well but quickly grew tired of the mettle grind and eventually stopped when I unlocked DR because I saw no point in continuing. The story was well documented on YouTube so I could get it there.

A trap many fall into is "I must have the reward so I'm stuck doing content I don't like". No reward is worth doing content you don't enjoy, or at the very least find tolerable. This game has so many different rewards that missing out on a few won't be noticed in the long run. Half the time the reward ends up forgotten as the player focuses on new rewards coming out. If there is a reward that the player regrets skipping out on, there is nothing stopping them from going back to get it. The FFXIV developers are not in the habit of removing desirable rewards from the game.

Sure, but my point still stand. Some kind of farm has been a part of the experience since at least SB. From what I got, HW had V1 (then V2) of the diadem that was grindy enough, and both ARR and HW relics were grindy. Some kind of grind has been part of the experience since at least 2.0. Thus telling someone that complain it's "You're wrong, you don't get the game philosophy" is a nonsense. We actually do get what the philosophy of the game was, and are not happy about the change.

For the rest I (mostly) liked both Eureka and Bozja. I understand how Eureka can be tedious, but I always thought they did Bozja good enough to not be too bad if you just want the story, after that, you can just ignore the content if you don't like it (After all, the out of Bozja option for the relic is nearly more profitable to the exception of that step that is awful with both options). The other way around is not possible. For those who liked that type of content, something is missing.

I honestly haven't seen anyone against more exploratory zones being added in the future for those who want grind content.

The sticking point seems to be that they don't want the relics tied to those zones. They want other ways to acquire the relics.

Hopefully the DT compromise would be to make the relic story it's own thing, with the exploratory zone one of many options for grinding the stages instead of tying the relic to the zone and giving players one other option outside of the zone for each stage that they don't find interesting. Even better if SE does a better job of balancing the time commitment of each option. I remember the uproar when the HW FATE grinding for memories was far more time efficient than grinding the memories in Bozja.

[sindriiisgaming]

I agree as someone who played since arr released that the formula is pretty stale/copy paste at this point but what's with the ops daily doom posting and daily "this game is dead and I hate this game and the community" how many of these threads are we going to get from op. Broaden your horizons and play other games and see what game fits you or take a break from ff14 and come back in dawntrail to see if the game changes enough to warrant coming back.

I've quit ffxiv for now. I'll return in the next patch for msq them bail till summer. I've had a blast playing kh3 and finishing up the story. After that ill move onto ff7r. But ideally I don't wanna quit ff at all. It's my home. The one mmo I really fit into. With a character I enjoy creating. I am hoping the game can be better so I can enjoy it again past raiding. Sure ppl say it won't change. But they need to less they commit business suicide. So we will see what they do. In 2025 i will be on mh wilds anyway and can easily live there if 14 becomes stale

[Stormpeaks]

I've quit ffxiv for now. I'll return in the next patch for msq them bail till summer. I've had a blast playing kh3 and finishing up the story. After that ill move onto ff7r. But ideally I don't wanna quit ff at all. It's my home. The one mmo I really fit into. With a character I enjoy creating. I am hoping the game can be better so I can enjoy it again past raiding. Sure ppl say it won't change. But they need to less they commit business suicide. So we will see what they do. In 2025 i will be on mh wilds anyway and can easily live there if 14 becomes stale

Business suicide lmao as the numbers are as stable as it gets if not on the upside, weird vision of business suicide bud

[sindriiisgaming]

Business suicide lmao as the numbers are as stable as it gets if not on the upside, weird vision of business suicide bud

And what real evidence do you have for this. The entirty of chaos dc Is barren. Every fc averages <10 daily users

[Stormpeaks]

And what real evidence do you have for this. The entirty of chaos dc Is barren. Every fc averages <10 daily users

I dont think you and I play the same game, but sure buddy, I was on EU few days ago and not much has changed, the same big fcs are still there, the only exception being sagittarius because everyone went to phantom.

Also lucky bancho show a slight decline as we are going on a content drought which is... surprise... absolutely normal.

[Nebelheim]

This. People forget that this is FINAL FANTASY XIV. The whole selling point of the game is that you can go play other games. In fact, for just $13/month you can play all the other games you want (sold separately). This isn’t like WoW which enslaves you and forces you to play. FFXIV is the perfect MMO for those who play one weekend a year, so for those people, the game is absolutely flawless.

Currently I been playing other games while also still signing in daily to check things even if most days I sit afk with ff14 in the background while playing other stuff. But I also wonder with all the ops daily doomposting about how ff14 is dead and how the community sucks and the game sucks why they still subscribe and not play something else. I have some issues with ff14 but it's still a good enough game for me to play daily/semi daily but if I hated the game as much as op did I wouldn't subject myself to playing a game I hate/dislike and unsub or find a completely new game.