Aloalo Criterion is DEAD

[Zairava]

The rewards seem pretty good to me now on par with savage raids and ultimates, 4 titles for clearing them all on savage, and unique weapon glows including one for blu which is rather unique, on top of some unique housing items that are incredibly rare to see out there in the wild, so there will be still a lot of value running this in later expansions.

Ah, yeah I forgot about titles, that's still a one and done thing though. As for housing items I think it should have both an indoor and outdoor one, but that's just me I guess. Honestly I find that there's one for BLU comical considering you can't even run it on BLU but hey it's there.

This is also not meant to be m+, I don't understand why it keeps getting compared to it, crit is supposed to end and not meant to be grinded until your eyes bleed, what do you even get out of m+ a mount? the gear is meaningless copy pasted 2d painted textures so that's useless as glam, so crit has the superior longevity rewards now.
Also it's ok to admit when you get filtered by something. M+ has a barrier of entry for toddlers, crit does require a minuscule amount of commitment from the start.

What the hell are you on about? It very obviously isn't meant to be M+ and I never expected it to be.

As for the rewards from M+, you aren't running it for the transmogs, you're running it for the gear, the item level. The barrier of entry is low, yes, but it does incrementally harder the higher the key is. The gear is the furthest thing from meaningless it is LITERALLY used as an infinitely repeatable source of content for gearing your characters. I honestly cannot comprehend how you could think crit even remotely has better rewards than M+ with this in mind unless you don't value gearing at all.

If they keep criterion as is without adjusting the rewards come Dawntrail then yeah it just won't be for me then. It's just disheartening seeing as I was someone advocating for harder dungeon content in the first place. (I guess to clarify, I was hoping for something roughly EX level with crit normal then Savage would have been, well, savage. That obviously isn't how it turned out)

[Colt47]

The reason that criterion is dead is that it rides on the same emotional cycle that all content is driven on. It's kind of a problem with the genre in general when it comes to super hard content but at least with Criterion people are able to finish it quickly and not feel like they are dragging things out. I can't say the same for savage since there's so few people at this point to work with. It seriously feels like there are less than 100 people left trying to progress during the week and only a fraction of those are healers, especially for the final mile of p12s p2.

Also, I'm pretty sure criterion savage is completely dead if no one can get through criterion. People forget that they need to do savage criterion to get the 665 weapon and not regular criterion, and savage criterion is even harder than the 8 man savage runs.

End game at the end of an expansion in FFXIV is basically a complete disaster.

[ZiraZ]

Ah, yeah I forgot about titles, that's still a one and done thing though. As for housing items I think it should have both an indoor and outdoor one, but that's just me I guess. Honestly I find that there's one for BLU comical considering you can't even run it on BLU but hey it's there.



What the hell are you on about? It very obviously isn't meant to be M+ and I never expected it to be.

As for the rewards from M+, you aren't running it for the transmogs, you're running it for the gear, the item level. The barrier of entry is low, yes, but it does incrementally harder the higher the key is. The gear is the furthest thing from meaningless it is LITERALLY used as an infinitely repeatable source of content for gearing your characters. I honestly cannot comprehend how you could think crit even remotely has better rewards than M+ with this in mind unless you don't value gearing at all.

If they keep criterion as is without adjusting the rewards come Dawntrail then yeah it just won't be for me then. It's just disheartening seeing as I was someone advocating for harder dungeon content in the first place. (I guess to clarify, I was hoping for something roughly EX level with crit normal then Savage would have been, well, savage. That obviously isn't how it turned out)

You are the one that keeps comparing it to m+ by saying it needs to be a gearing avenue, but it was never been intended to be one, gear is not the focus of this game, as designed by the devs, its not meant to be a never ending gearing skinnerbox like WoW and there is no complicated gearing mechanisms.
Titles, glam and mount, that's always been the real endgame rewards, yeah the first 2 crits were lacking but now we have unique glowy weapons and that's in line with the other difficult end-game content.
The reason crit is dead is it's awful implementation throughout the expansion, not the rewards, at least not anymore.
I mean yeah cool normal crit dropping gear would help gearing alts but this alone is not gonna suddenly make you run it just to do 100 more dmg, I don't buy that for a second

[Colt47]

You are the one that keeps comparing it to m+ by saying it needs to be a gearing avenue, but it was never been intended to be one, gear is not the focus of this game, as designed by the devs, its not meant to be a never ending gearing skinnerbox like WoW and there is no complicated gearing mechanisms.
Titles, glam and mount, that's always been the real endgame rewards, yeah the first 2 crits were lacking but now we have unique glowy weapons and that's in line with the other difficult end-game content.
The reason crit is dead is it's awful implementation thought the expansion, not the rewards, at least not anymore.
I mean yeah cool normal crit dropping gear would help gearing alts but this alone is not gonna suddenly make you run it just to do 100 more dmg, I don't buy that for a second

I am going to state this again: criterion SAVAGE has the glowy weapons. This is not the same as Criterion.

[ZiraZ]

I am going to state this again: criterion SAVAGE has the glowy weapons. This is not the same as Criterion.

I'm aware and don't see how this changes anything

[Hyperia]

Also, I'm pretty sure criterion savage is completely dead if no one can get through criterion. People forget that they need to do savage criterion to get the 665 weapon and not regular criterion, and savage criterion is even harder than the 8 man savage runs.

End game at the end of an expansion in FFXIV is basically a complete disaster.

This, this so much. I did Pandamonium Savage through P8S (cleared) and that burned me out, I'm skipping this tier. When I tried the first Savage Criterion, my static asked why... and we went back to Savage.

The difficulty of the current system is too high as I would prefer the story mode to stay the way it is, maybe a bit easier in solo, then for criterion, I would cap it at a mid-expansion Extreme trial level. Savage would keep the Extreme difficulty with an enrage timer and no death penalty.

I want a harder dungeon than expert, which is actually easier than expansion prog dungeons, but I don't want something that requires hours of prep, a static, watching videos, etc. We wanted a harder dungeon and got the dungeon equivalent of Goradias.

P.S. If you want people to do this content long term, please add a roulette for it, 50 tomes bonus per day.

[Colt47]

This, this so much. I did Pandamonium Savage through P8S (cleared) and that burned me out, I'm skipping this tier. When I tried the first Savage Criterion, my static asked why... and we went back to Savage.

The difficulty of the current system is too high as I would prefer the story mode to stay the way it is, maybe a bit easier in solo, then for criterion, I would cap it at a mid-expansion Extreme trial level. Savage would keep the Extreme difficulty with an enrage timer and no death penalty.

I want a harder dungeon than expert, which is actually easier than expansion prog dungeons, but I don't want something that requires hours of prep, a static, watching videos, etc. We wanted a harder dungeon and got the dungeon equivalent of Goradias.

P.S. If you want people to do this content long term, please add a roulette for it, 50 tomes bonus per day.

Savage wasn't really bad until we got into Endwalker, and yeah p8s burned a lot of people out. It probably has to do with the scaling they are using not working to the same degree as it did before they nerfed the stats down. For most people that want to do something challenging end game, savage and ultimates aren't a good answer because the demand on personal time and coordination is too high. If someone has so much as a change in their schedule it can set a static back months just because they can't run 3 days a week. That and the obsessive amount of study and practice needed outside of doing the run itself is too much. The only purpose savage has right now is for content creators to make content on it and guides.

Also going to put this out here that there was a point where Yoshi P. had stated that if people make mods to overcome the difficulty of the content, there is no point in making the content. He's absolutely correct, because what it means is that the content is too difficult, so people are trying to find ways to reduce the difficulty without having to depend on the developers to reduce the difficulty, most likely because of a super slow response time to issues on already existing content. And yeah, I do not expect any reaction from SE on the difficulty of savage since radio silence appears to be a thing on it most of the time.

[Hyperia]

And yeah, I do not expect any reaction from SE on the difficulty of savage since radio silence appears to be a thing on it most of the time.

Sad thing is, back in ARR and HW, we used to get info from the devs all the time. Little status updates, magazine interviews, posts in the forums, written letters from Yoshi, etc.

Now it’s all silence besides what is given at the Fanfest. They used to be so engaged with us back then that the communications and the community was great.

It doesn’t feel like they are engaging with us anymore and all of the communications we feel very calculated, managed and controlled. Somebody in SE really wants to keep the message hyper controlled and super managed. It almost feels like the tables have switched between SE and Blizzard when you get more involvement from Blizzard vs SE and that boggles my mind…