Dawntrail - What abilities do you think need to be trimmed from the game?

[Rithy255]

I guess any and all healing on Pld and War now that they apparently need to do higher damage than the one tank that doesn't have any.

I want drk to do more damage as a PLD player, so i rather keep the healing (just remove holyspirit/conf combo healing), War should also do less damage.
DRK also has pretty good self mitigation compared to most tanks (inside raids anyway by the nature of Dark Mind being magic only), but I do think it should be doing more then warrior. I actually disagree with PLD's buffs in 6.5 (and warriors buffs in 6.4)

In reality gunbreakers are laughing at everyone because they got really good everything and best DPS.

[Oizen]

I want drk to do more damage as a PLD player, so i rather keep the healing (just remove holyspirit/conf combo healing), War should also do less damage.
DRK also has pretty good self mitigation compared to most tanks (inside raids anyway by the nature of Dark Mind being magic only), but I do think it should be doing more then warrior. I actually disagree with PLD's buffs in 6.5 (and warriors buffs in 6.4)

In reality gunbreakers are laughing at everyone because they got really good everything and best DPS.

GNB's sustain is around the same level that Dark Knight's is, and its party utility is basically identical, being borderline nonexistant outside of DM/HoL, and their short mit on an ally.
Both fall very far behind in terms of healing and sustain, with WAR brining about 1.5x as much and PLD bringing 1.3x as much, based on statistics.

HoC is powerful but you're not going to pocket a non-tank indefinitely with it like you can Nascent or Intervention. More healing than DRK has with it, but then Living Dead is significantly better than Superbolide in my opinion, and TBN is available enough to where it basically evens out.
And content that demands more mit and sustain like Criterion Savage reflect this with DRK and GNB being played way less compared to WAR and PLD.

Tanks and healers in non standard content is probably the biggest balance disparity in the game.

[Rithy255]

Snip

Gunbreakers sustain is not the same as Dark Knight, Dark knights "sustain" that is shown on logs in a fight is because TBN counts as healing, The only sustain Dark Has is their Invul (and third combo which gunbreaker has but better and on their 2nd combo). You cannot count TBN has healing sustain, it's shielding, two separate things. those numbers aren't very accurate to Dark Knights actual healing sustain.

Gunbreakers healing on HOC and aurora, are very comparable to what PLD/WAR has, War obviously beating both PLD/GNB out, PLD generally only heals more then GNB because of Divine Veil and magic attacks burst healing, Which is why I think out of the two I'd like to see PLD's magic burst healing removed if we were to dial down on PLD's self sustain abilities. If anything without that healing on req (which mind you isn't really fun because PLD can't even control that healing), PLD would have less sustain then GNB.

Why wouldn't you Use HOC in the same cases you use intervention/BW, Are we also forgetting GNB gets aurora to help out, I'm pretty sure I've easily sustained two DPS before as Gunbreaker, so it even has enough targetable sustain to keep others alive just like WAR/PLD, I'm In favour of buffing raid wides for GNB/DRK mind you, a 10% magic mit feels very underwhelming, Other then that It's hard to believe that Gunbreaker isn't still the more versatile and best tank, Pld can do with some small self sustain nerfs and I'm fine, Warrior can also do with the same especially it's AOE healing.

Criterion savage has balance Issues, if You look at Healers and DPS they're also suffering from major imbalances, if tanks like war/pld were so broken that they can replace healers then why would Whm/Ast play rates be so low compared to Sage?

what I disagree with is "No healing tools" I think PLD's healing/utility should be slightly better then your average tank in exchange for like marginally lower damage, Gunbreaker should remain the jack of all trades, Warrior should lean into being about big HP and Self healing but maybe lacking as much team abilities, Dark Knight should be reworked into something worthy of the "Dark Knight". The Point is why would the first answer be to remove everything like Sustain from tanks, It just makes every tank feel the same and we all know that's already a major issue with tank design as of current, I'm not saying we shouldn't have trade offs for higher sustain/mitigation ect. But this Idea of just removing everything about a tank and giving them nothing in place feels like we're just going to go over the same issues again and again.

I'm all for healers actually healing Fyi, hence why I'm against the hyper sustain of warrior or PLD's magic attack healing, I just don't think this "remove of sustain" solution is actually a solution that will fix healers, it will just make ruin more uniqueness about tanks.