And the slow death of the RPG based battlesystem

[Rithy255]

I'll just list the Issues I think a lot of people seem to find in (tank/healer/dps) design.
Tank:

• In Terms of tank's DPS you generally just press your main combo (that usually just being the first three buttons) and gain resource Gunbreaker is most likely the most defined tank currently, War/Drk pretty much borrow the same offensive play style from one another DRK just feeling more visually.
• In terms of defensives, in the core of it Tanks all have very similar mitigation value, which was not something in previous expansions such as Shb/SB where tanks at least felt differently defensive wise
• Aggro management, while this wasn't only the tanks job a lot of players feel like tanks have generally gotten less to do specific to tank which goes back into them not feeling that very different DPS/Defensive wise so in general tanks just feel like boring DPS without aggro management, this also with stances on how tanks used to have ways to get more risk vs reward.

Healer

• The core gameplay of healer is currently focused on DPS most the time and throw out a ogcd heal, which all healers share pretty much the same rotation, Sage has phlegma that stands out but that's about it, A lot of people want to actually have more damage buttons as a healer because a lot of that time spent is not actually healing.
• On the other side you have healer players who want to Heal a lot more, which again the current gameplay of healer is very similar even if it may feel different to you, as your job is to keep pressing your damage button and to throw out a heal, all healers share this same fundamental design so to someone who mainly only plays healer they will feel like they're just playing the same job with new visuals.

DPS

• They fit into the same burst each and every cycle, a lot of DPS gameplay revolves around the burst phase, some like ninja will fit into a 1minute cycle with a slightly stronger 2 minute cycle, some will more focus on that 2minute cycle, This leads to a lot of people who play DPS feel that the Jobs kind of have the same purpose and cycle.
• Ranged jobs, others like ninja as well, don't really feel like the utility/dps hybrids they used to be they used to bring a lot more then just damage buffs and a extra raid wide defensive. They used to be a very team based role which a lot of people enjoyed.

I think the Main issue is while yes some jobs feel different, the core gameplay loop is all the same, all DPS are meant to fit one box and purpose in a group, same with tanks and healers, Beyond that The variety of the rotations and damage buttons is slowly being made easier as well which creates people to really not like the direction that the games going in.

I also want to feel like my job choice matters, if not that at least that my job choice feels different which I really don't feel as a tank player anymore.

[HikariKurosawa]

I'll just list the Issues I think a lot of people seem to find in (tank/healer/dps) design.

Yeah I can't relate to all of this personally. Every job plays very differently even though they have similar core functions. What you're describing is just cohesive and balanced game design. FFXIV plays like FFXIV basically.

Ninja is nothing like samurai or any other melee dps, just like all the others. Black mage is extremely different from the other casters. SMN as well, RDM as well. All tanks play very differently too. It turns out that in order for the game to be balanced, the healer and tank roles need a specific toolkit for things to work. No healer feels the same to me, no tank feels the same to me, no dps feels the same to me.

Saying that everything is homogenized because it falls into a 2 minute window just doesn't work for me as an argument personally. Timing doesn't determine the gameplay. Ranged dps jobs should feel like ranged dps jobs.

"The variety of the rotations and damage buttons is slowly being made easier" can you explain how variety is made easier? I get that rotations are becoming more polished and smooth, but this is necessary to enable boss fights that don't feel like a training dummy with how many abilities we have currently. Rotations used to be a lot less complex anyway so I don't get it. Buff timing and upkeep was maybe more complicated sure, but the amount of skills used was extremely simplistic in comparison to what we have now. Even ShB feels simple compared to EW.

Your job choice does matter, choose the fantasy that appeals to you most. If I want to be an bard because I like bow and arrow gameplay, I shouldn't be reduced to a support member of the team. Play the job that suits your taste most and change your priorities I guess. I think people get too caught up in the systems parts of mmos lately and not caught up enough in the fantasy of it all. I hate to say it but it sounds like you don't appreciate the great game you get to play.

[Rithy255]

I'm done responding after this I think this discussion will just go into circles, I've tried to explain mine and others perspectives here, I think you're missing that people just don't view everything the same way as you, I respect you like aspects about the game, but that comes with respecting that others may disagree with certain aspects about the game

I appreciate the game for the friends I've made and experiences I've had, the lore the world, the MSQ. The gameplay? the job design? Yeah I have issues with that and I'd prefer if it was designed different, a lot of others do too, people are should talk about what they would like to be changed. If I didn't appreciate it I wouldn't say anything and play something else.

Jobs may not feel the same to you but, you have to realise that a large amount of the community generally see's how very similar jobs have become in recent expansions. I'm also not saying every job is the exact same. Again a lot of bard players want to be that support/dps hybrid they used to which a lot of players would prefer more team based DPS jobs (even in the job guide it mentions ranged DPS "providing support to allies"). I'm not saying Ninja/sam ect. Feel the same this was mostly a point about tanks/healers, but they feel more the same then they used to, which others may not like, this is what i was pointing out.

Timing doesn't fully determine the gameplay of the job but it does actually effect how the jobs play in similar ways, PLD wouldn't have been changed to fit into timers if that wasn't the case, strict burst timings also effect things like haste buffs not really working or jobs not wanting skill speed Varity, the list goes on, I could really state how the "2 minute meta" effects gameplay. 1/2 minute bursts play a big factor on limiting job design even if you can work around it. I'm not even fully against 1/2 minute meta but again I prefer SHB timings feeling less strict I liked how Ninja could apply trick attack to the boss often with a 60s buff to help the party but that was changed to only be for self. Honestly the 2 minute meta argument doesn't really matter and is something I don't really mind if it was changed or not I just want more team based gameplay and some old aspects I preferred about the game back, I'm more concerned about tank/healer design more then anything.

All I'm saying is that a lot of people prefer the more RPG aspects of ff14 that have been took out and changed, the game is very different to what it used to be, you have to realise that not everyone will view the game in the same way.

[HikariKurosawa]

This is the dps role forum. I agree that this conversation will continue to go in circles because you're pushing a false narrative.

[HappyHubris]

This is the dps role forum. I agree that this conversation will continue to go in circles because you're pushing a false narrative.

Ahh, there's that FFXIV toxic positivity. "The game is perfect; hush!"

As for the broader question, I agree that fight design leans WAY too heavily on DDR and memorization compared to other MMOs. And that everything else is being sanded off (healers that don't heal; tanks that don't need to reposition or generate threat; etc).