Aloalo Criterion is DEAD

[Caro178]

Doesnt matter if the content is good if the rewards is trash.

As someone who has done this and just posted a long complaint about the reward system (specifically the rarity of the mount drop) I do think it matters that the content is good. It matters very much. Content being fun is the #1 to me, but it's true that content longevity is not usually tied to how fun it is, but rather what you can get out of it in the long run. Normal mode is basically a training ground for clearing savage which is awkward design even if the new exquisite weapons are an attractive flex.

TLDR I like the Criterions and I'm glad they didn't give up on them after the first few flops. I hope they experiment more and take some of the criticism to heart in their design philosophy going forward.

[Cpt_Jack_Irons]

I believe the intention was always for Criterion (normal and savage) to be challenging evergreen content more comparable to ultimate raids not necessarily purely from the perspective of difficulty but in how the content is meant to be tackled. The design philosophy is different from extremes and regular savage raids which are never ilevel synced at all. They have always been that way. If you hop into P4S with a premade right now with no additional settings it will load you in at your current maximum ilevel as the default option. Load into Another Sil'dihn Subteranne, however, and you'll notice you are item level synced to 605. All the criterions are already ilevel synced just like ultimate raids so it's obvious what their plan with them is. It is fine to disagree with that design philosophy but there is plenty of logic behind it in my opinion. This is not even mid-level difficulty content, it's basically a middle ground between savage and ultimate that the devs intend to treat like evergreen challenge mode content going forward.

i just find it weird how they made them item synced but then pretty much give you no reason to return and keep doing Criterion Dungeons after you've gotten your items, they could add an Criterion Dungeon Daily Roulette to keep it alive then at the very least

[Alleluia]

Lack of rewards => Removes the reason to replay it => it dies out quick..
If it was tied to gear progression or relic..
It would have stayed relevant.

There's always the possibility they'll tie it to relic prog for Dawntrail. As an option, I mean; not necessarily the only way to get x prog token.

[Caro178]

i just find it weird how they made them item synced but then pretty much give you no reason to return and keep doing Criterion Dungeons after you've gotten your items, they could add an Criterion Dungeon Daily Roulette to keep it alive then at the very least

Tbh you could say the same of ultimate raids. There's no reason to go back in once you've acquired all the weapons from a given raid. I don't think they always go into everything with the intention of making it last forever. No matter how much of a grind they make content eventually players will be done and have no reason to return.

The dungeons are genuinely too difficult to ever be made into a roulette. I say that with the utmost sincerity. Mechanically they range from low end savage in their easiest moments to ultimate difficulty in their hardest moments, specifically the downtime chain mechanic toward the end of the Statice which requires precise timing and positioning that you don't even see in Omega Protocol.

[hynaku]

If it's not popular then wonder if they will not add any in 7.0.

[Saraide]

Doesnt matter if the content is good if the rewards is trash.

The most mmo player opinion ever. This is why this genre is bad.

[Absurdity]

The most mmo player opinion ever. This is why this genre is bad.

They're not wrong though, most people don't do the content just for the content itself. They need some kind of reward equivalent to the time invested into said content, especially for repeat completions.

[Caro178]

If it's not popular then wonder if they will not add any in 7.0.

They've already announced that Criterions are in development for 7.0. so I expect that door is already closed. Ultimately the normal Variant modes have apparently been very popular and players have interacted with them a ton on their own time, some solo, some in groups, but enough that they have significant data that these are worth pursuing more. Basically these dungeons are fairly inexpensive to create and XIV design always starts with the hard mode and then works back to create the normal difficulty (they've said in the past savage raids are the same.) They've said they will continue to experiment with different rewards so we can only wait and see what happens. I personally would be very sad to lose the Criterions now because with some tweaking of drop rates and such I think they could feel like the perfect little activity to engage with between savage raid tiers and ultimates for me and my friends.

[Zairava]

The most mmo player opinion ever. This is why this genre is bad.

Yeah lets just not release content with rewards for players to chase keep them invested. Lets just make all content dead on arrival because there's nothing to gain from it.

Surely that will go over well in an MMO that MMO players are looking to sink their teeth into.

[Caro178]

Yeah lets just not release content with rewards for players to chase keep them invested. Lets just make all content dead on arrival because there's nothing to gain from it.

Surely that will go over well in an MMO that MMO players are looking to sink their teeth into.

Man, this ain't even in response to me but this is such a strawman argument. They never said they had no issues with the current Criterion reward system, they said that the content being fun is also important and they are, in fact, correct. Ideally we want both, not one or the other. Choosing between "fun" and "good rewards" is a battle where everyone loses in the end.

Case in point, I'm now at 15 clears of Another Aloalo with my entire group not having found a single mount between us. That's 60 rolls to get a mount between the 4 of us with nothing to show for it. The drop rate is absolutely ridiculous for the time investment.