Ditch TP in exchange for unique systems.

[Platinumstorm]

I think developing unique resource systems to the classes, or at least to the jobs, would be an excellent decision to bring variety to the game's combat mechanics. However, one major hurdle would be balancing cross-class skills, but I'd still strongly encourage them to explore this option; probably more than any other avenue.

It's possible that there is no manageable solution other than applying these resource systems to class and job specific only skills, but that moves from the job and primary class would generate the conditions necessary to manage the resources, but I would make this a primary developer focus.

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

Was just about to type something similar, but less comprehensive...

In short, keep TP, but balance the means to gain TP among classes/jobs to diversify the gameplay. Here I say balance, because it's not a revamp, more like adjusting a few parameters.
Examples:
PLD: 50% less tp gained from damage given, 100% more TP from damage taken
DRG: TP bonus on crits
MNK: TP gained on evades + TP bonus on reflex skills
WHM: Slow and continuous TP gain proportional to healing over time in the party, fix TP gains from curing a status effect
BLM: Slow and continuous TP gain from DOT, fix gains from enfeebling effects

I think I like this more. Different ways to generate TP. Similar to how Limit Break gauge was filled in FF10, different styles.

[Tibian]

I've never been a huge fan of TP -- so I'd enjoy seeing the investigation of alternate systems being applied to other classes. I do feel TP makes gameplay sort of like a "waiting game" but it really depends on how responsive 2.0's systems are. With 2.0 so close, I can't imagine any radical systems being changed this late in the game.

For instance, lets assume Summoner is going to be implemented. How is the pet going to be mediated and how are the Summoner's spells going to be mediated?

I'd really enjoy seeing a pool of runes mediate the pet abilities. Ie: Carbuncle has a starting rune pool of 5. With upgrades via leveling and talent systems, it can be increased to 7. The runes naturally regenerate over time, and each skill Carbuncle uses takes a varying amount of runes. So, Carbuncle's basic healing move on a party member would take 1 rune, whereas a party wide heal would take 2, a basic attack take 1, and aoe attack take 2, and "super move" take 3-4.

I think there are ways to implement the aforementioned example into other classes and jobs; thus increasing diversity in gameplay (rather than relying on a TP/MP system for everything) and making classes/jobs more unique and gratifying to play.

[Enfarious]

TP/MP is fine. I would like to see spells that generate and use TP, and weaponskills that use MP though.

They had these in the begining. Mostly Elementally charged WSs, it was good, but people whined or something and they went away.

Good luck convincing these guys to change Omni ...

Mages don't really need TP, so agree that needs to go.

TP is basically rage though so it makes sense on melee.

Agree, but mages can melee and set cross class ws's, not to mention that like the above mages once had WSs all their own. Maybe instead of scratching TP they just get back some skills that use it instead of MP.

How would a mage build TP though, is it realistic to expect a mage to go in and melee during battle ?

I would very much like to see Musketeer with a rogue style combo system, something like the amount of bullets you shoot = 1 combo point.

or

No TP and just a stamina gauge which fills over time and not by action.

Mages gain TP the same way as everyone else, by dealing dmg, some of us remember that trait in XI, you get back TP based on dmg dealt.
Stamina becomes a balance issue very fast, if it recharges to quickly people just spam the most dmging ability available(not unlike class stacking), too slow people can't do enough.

Personally I think the TP system works well, and except that it was sometimes a tad slow in XI it worked there too, isn't this kind of one of those "if it ai'nt broke, then don't try to fix it spots".

Focus on the things that are actually broken for complete overhaul, make this a thread that's more "Hey could we also have?"

I've never been a huge fan of TP -- so I'd enjoy seeing the investigation of alternate systems being applied to other classes. I do feel TP makes gameplay sort of like a "waiting game" but it really depends on how responsive 2.0's systems are. With 2.0 so close, I can't imagine any radical systems being changed this late in the game.

For instance, lets assume Summoner is going to be implemented. How is the pet going to be mediated and how are the Summoner's spells going to be mediated?

I'd really enjoy seeing a pool of runes mediate the pet abilities. Ie: Carbuncle has a starting rune pool of 5. With upgrades via leveling and talent systems, it can be increased to 7. The runes naturally regenerate over time, and each skill Carbuncle uses takes a varying amount of runes. So, Carbuncle's basic healing move on a party member would take 1 rune, whereas a party wide heal would take 2, a basic attack take 1, and aoe attack take 2, and "super move" take 3-4.

I think there are ways to implement the aforementioned example into other classes and jobs; thus increasing diversity in gameplay (rather than relying on a TP/MP system for everything) and making classes/jobs more unique and gratifying to play.

And aren't these types of things just TP in reverse, ok so I don't have to hit anything to get it built up I just have to wait...wait I have to wait for TP to build too, so let's replace waiting for HP/MP/TP with waiting for stamina/runes/combo points.
Come on if your just gonna suggest systems that are essentialy what we already have with a different look and name then ask them to change the way it looks and what it's called.
The function of the "runes" is the exact same as MP(1rune = 100MP, cure costs1rune/100mp), Combo points are TP(I land 5 hits get a combo point == 1000 TP, 1 combo point can do tier 1 WSs = 1000TP for tier 1 WSs) ...

[Ava]

I had a huge detailed post written up about 6 months ago with ideas for alternative resource systems, but the reason I never posted it is because I wasn't really sure if TP was the problem for me, or if it was the combat in general. Now, I don't think TP is the problem, but rather class design. As others have pointed out, I'd rather see classes that use the resources we have in unique ways, maybe a class that spends HP to use spells, but can restore HP with TP, or classes with spells that costed TP instead of MP (think Dancer from XI).

Alternatively, since I think the major problem for me (a main mage player), is that on casters TP is useless and just wastes space on the UI. Perhaps a unique system for DoM could be a fair compromise, while experimenting with the aforementioned ideas (or others) on DoW classes.

[Platinumstorm]

They had these in the begining. Mostly Elementally charged WSs, it was good, but people whined or something and they went away.


Agree, but mages can melee and set cross class ws's, not to mention that like the above mages once had WSs all their own. Maybe instead of scratching TP they just get back some skills that use it instead of MP.


Mages gain TP the same way as everyone else, by dealing dmg, some of us remember that trait in XI, you get back TP based on dmg dealt.
Stamina becomes a balance issue very fast, if it recharges to quickly people just spam the most dmging ability available(not unlike class stacking), too slow people can't do enough.

Personally I think the TP system works well, and except that it was sometimes a tad slow in XI it worked there too, isn't this kind of one of those "if it ai'nt broke, then don't try to fix it spots".

Focus on the things that are actually broken for complete overhaul, make this a thread that's more "Hey could we also have?"


And aren't these types of things just TP in reverse, ok so I don't have to hit anything to get it built up I just have to wait...wait I have to wait for TP to build too, so let's replace waiting for HP/MP/TP with waiting for stamina/runes/combo points.
Come on if your just gonna suggest systems that are essentialy what we already have with a different look and name then ask them to change the way it looks and what it's called.
The function of the "runes" is the exact same as MP(1rune = 100MP, cure costs1rune/100mp), Combo points are TP(I land 5 hits get a combo point == 1000 TP, 1 combo point can do tier 1 WSs = 1000TP for tier 1 WSs) ...

The difference between resource mechanics is how you spend or generate them. Your example of 1 mp = 1 rune is being too superficial.

Think of these differences to get a better idea:
MP = regenerated over time, faster out of combat
Runes = could be regenerated via certain ability uses and spent via other abilities

Differences like that create unique gameplay elements to classes that suit certain people better than others.

[northernsky]

Alternatively, since I think the major problem for me (a main mage player), is that on casters TP is useless and just wastes space on the UI. Perhaps a unique system for DoM could be a fair compromise, while experimenting with the aforementioned ideas (or others) on DoW classes.

We have mostly discussed about ways to gain TP, but not much about ways to use it.

Mages don't necessarily have to use, or consume TP the same way the other classes do. There could be modifiers on certain spells, specific combos, or abilities (think blissful mind, necrogenesis, parsimony) based on TP.

TP in this case could be harder to build, i-e longer to accumulate and faster to deplete when the weapon is not pulled (which would actually lead to interesting strategies), but would not be consumed by individual abilities.

Just random examples based on the current system that could promote class differentiation

[Jinko]

TP in this case could be harder to build, i-e longer to accumulate and faster to deplete when the weapon is not pulled (which would actually lead to interesting strategies), but would not be consumed by individual abilities.

I don't believe you can regen MP whilst in battle stance. (besides the +3 refresh effect and Magi)

[Firon]

I'm pretty sure the dev team can make some uniqe systems for classes most of them are the 11 dev team they did do SCH DNC COR BLU and PUP so i think they will make much more ways to play classes then we have now.

[northernsky]

I don't believe you can regen MP whilst in battle stance. (besides the +3 refresh effect and Magi)

Yeah, that's the trade-off if TP considerably boosts spells and abilities potency.

You could alternate, for a moment in the fight, between a more agressive style based on TP-boosted abilities but fast MP depletion, and a classical system with little to no TP gain but steadily replenishing mp pool.
Also, if, say, thundaga consumes half the mp when used in combo and tp > 1500, or parsimony recovers more mp proportional with TP, there would be ways to play for a while on "TP mode".

Honestly I have not thoroughly thought up that idea, just said that, if well balanced, it could lead to interesting strategies