How would you solve the boring "damage rotation" of the healers?

[kaynide]

1) remove 1/2 the healing abilities. Give them a modest stock cure 1, and a few resource-managed cures that can’t be spammed. So healers would need to heal as needed rather than spamming/100% topped off at all times.

2) give them dps rotations that are entirely fueled by healing correctly/efficiently or fuel healing itself. Similar to sage. Robust dps rotations.

3) have it so healers actually run out of mp if they do too much too fast. Not a problem as a burst option, but more of a longer fight resource management problem where they might need to just chill and recharge mp mid fight.

[Renathras]

Dude do you realize that all you’ve managed to do is convince people that you are totally unwilling to acknowledge that you might be SLIGHTLY wrong about a thing or two?

That's stupid if so. People keep saying this but I've said I was wrong about multiple things in the past.

If the metric of being reasonable is admitting to being wrong in cases one isn't...that's not a reasonable standard.

Besides which, my own position already incorporates that, doesn't it?

I don't say "No one wants more damage buttons" because I KNOW that many people do. I also know that not ALL people do so there needs to be exception for them. But folks like you refuse to admit that. Multiple times in this thread I've been called the only person with my position despite SEVERAL OTHER POSTERS (I can go back and quote their posts) also said they don't want more damage buttons/complexity on healers. So who is wrong and not admitting it?

It's not "obvious" when you use exaggerations. THAT WAS WHY I had in my signature for a while (until Sebazy beat it out of me) "try not to use hyperbole". Hyperbole/exageration is like sarcasm, it doesn't translate to text well unless you mark it as /sarc or the like. I don't, in fact, know you don't mean "literally the most no effort thing you can do" when you say "no effort". I think of what, in my mind, "no effort" would be if you don't specify or spell it out. If you had said "little effort on their DPS rotation", I would probably have agreed with that. But that isn't what you said.

My dude, I'm not a mind reader. Clearly.

I don't "attack people personally" or "get completely indignant" with people who haven't attacked me personally, I don't "insist people completely misunderstand" except when people AREN'T "totally getting what I mean". When people say, as you did in your last post, "Is this summary correct?" when it very much is not, what do you want me to say? "Yes, it's correct"? When you say "You want no complexity to healers", but I DO want complexity, just healing complexity not DPS complexity, am I supposed to say "Yes, that's correct" when it's not?

That is, are you asking me to outright lie to and mislead you?

[IDontPetLalas]

1) remove 1/2 the healing abilities. Give them a modest stock cure 1, and a few resource-managed cures that can’t be spammed. So healers would need to heal as needed rather than spamming/100% topped off at all times.

2) give them dps rotations that are entirely fueled by healing correctly/efficiently or fuel healing itself. Similar to sage. Robust dps rotations.

3) have it so healers actually run out of mp if they do too much too fast. Not a problem as a burst option, but more of a longer fight resource management problem where they might need to just chill and recharge mp mid fight.

For 1- most healers don't currently spam heals, we try to heal as needed. Also, I wouldn't want the same skills for every healer. For (2) So you want us to heal efficiently, so that means our DPS is going to be limited? We need to overheal to DPS in some cases? (3) So everything stops because healers run out of MP? Wasn't this a thing 20 years ago? I could understand managing mp, but stopping? No.

[Thurmnmurmn]

Man for someone who had a rule to not engage in hyperbole. You sure engage in hyperbole a lot.

[Aravell]

Snip

Ok then, if you want discussion, then I'll ask you a question.

You say you want to optimise healing and would be fine with healing being harder, yes? Well, people already optimise healing now, when progging a fight, that's exactly what you do, optimise healing. So in your proposal, what does the WHM player get to do after clearing the fight? There's no longer any need to optimise healing, they've already cleared. What do you propose they do now? What further satisfaction do they get from playing after they clear?

[SargeTheSeagull]

That’s stupid if so.

It's not "obvious" when you use exaggerations. THAT WAS WHY I had in my signature for a while (until Sebazy beat it out of me) "try not to use hyperbole". Hyperbole/exageration is like sarcasm, it doesn't translate to text well unless you mark it as /sarc or the like. I don't, in fact, know you don't mean "literally the most no effort thing you can do" when you say "no effort". I think of what, in my mind, "no effort" would be if you don't specify or spell it out. If you had said "little effort on their DPS rotation", I would probably have agreed with that. But that isn't what you said.

Literally the first thing you do is call everyone stupid. You can’t write this stuff. It is obvious when someone exaggerates. I invite everyone else in this thread to say if they understood “purple parse with no effort” as “spam medica I the whole time”. Seriously, anyone who thought that’s what I meant please say so.

[ForsakenRoe]

Man for someone who had a rule to not engage in hyperbole. You sure engage in hyperbole a lot.

Ahh but he removed that from his sig so now it's fair game

Literally the first thing you do is call everyone stupid. You can’t write this stuff. It is obvious when someone exaggerates. I invite everyone else in this thread to say if they understood “purple parse with no effort” as “spam medica I the whole time”. Seriously, anyone who thought that’s what I meant please say so.

I mean, he's not wrong in some regards. I am pretty stupid at times. But, even so, I have the presence of mind, and knowledge of game design principles to understand that 'making it damage neutral to spam 'Cure, Cure, Cure, Misery' on loop is a bloody stupid idea'. From MP economy balancing, to how much extra sustain that provides 'for free', to the fact that your damage would be entirely sourced from a 1240p move (meaning you're ENTIRELY at the mercy of Crit RNG). Seems like one of those ideas that was not thought out beyond the original 'oh this feels like it'd be a good idea'. And then, after he calls me out for homogenization (because I suggested a 0-100 gauge, something done by one other healer so far, and SE hasn't exactly done a great job with it), he suggests 'not-Eukrasia' for WHM to use a Lily to make the regular GCDs instantcast. Like how E.Prog and E.Diag are instantcast? But I guess this doesn't count because Eukrasia is free and WHMukrasia would have a cost attached? I think me and him are working from two different dictionaries because his definitions of things seem a bit... different

As for the original post of 'WHM needs to stay boring and braindead so people who put in no effort can purple parse' (or whatever the exact wording was), I'd assume that to mean 'so that players can hit whatever buttons in whatever order, and still get told they're a good player congratulations we're so proud of you', which... I'd say the 'Blood Lily is nourished by any GCD heal' idea would lead to that particular result? Regen, Cure2, Cure3, Medica2, the Lily heals, just hit whichever one you like, at any time you like. Even if it's overheal, who cares, just whack it and press Misery every 4th GCD

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

[…]I am pretty stupid at times. But, even so, I have the presence of mind, and knowledge of game design principles to understand that 'making it damage neutral to spam 'Cure, Cure, Cure, Misery' on loop is a bloody stupid idea'. From MP economy balancing, to how much extra sustain that provides 'for free', to the fact that your damage would be entirely sourced from a 1240p move (meaning you're ENTIRELY at the mercy of Crit RNG)[…]

I don’t know who would think it’s feasible to have every GCD turned into what’s effectively at minimum ST 500 cure potency & ST 310 damage potency at the same MP cost as Glare III itself.

At that point, people should just admit that they’d like to remove all wrong options so they can’t feel bad for choosing anything at all outside maybe emoting & move on.

[ForsakenRoe]

I don’t know who would think it’s feasible to have every GCD turned into what’s effectively at minimum ST 500 cure potency & ST 310 damage potency at the same MP cost as Glare III itself.

At that point, people should just admit that they’d like to remove all wrong options so they can’t feel bad for choosing anything at all outside maybe emoting & move on.

Nah, the next step is that emotes also apply an 'emotional damage' debuff to the enemy (because you BM'd them so hard with your BeesKnees while they were charging their UniverseBuster9000 move) which causes your next X attacks (scaling based on emoting duration) to also deal double damage, such that emoting is also damage neutral

(this is sarcasm of the highest order)

[TheDustyOne]

To be fair, /comfort having an actual gameplay effect in a couple of older dungeons was neat, if a bit out of left field.