Dawntrail Healers need a rework

[Renathras]

Because I had no interest in partaking in the hobby analogy discussion and it wasn't what I was addressing. All I was addressing was that this mentality of 'healers are not DPS, therefore, they should not have DPS beyond the bare minimum necessary for getting through solo' that I have seen regurgitated by mulitple people in different ways over the years is inconsistent. Because no one says that about tanks. Tanks do not need anything more than the bare minimum to function, so where is the person crying 'I play tank because I want to tank!' when someone talks about adding a new attack to a tank? Where is the person that goes 'I don't want attacks on my tank. If I wanted to DPS, I'd play DPS'?

I want consistency. If the way healers are currently treated is the "correct" way, then I want the same for tanks. If the way tanks are treated is the "correct" way, then I want the same for healers. That's all.

Then why'd you reply to me?

Because (a) that is what I WAS talking about and (b) because I didn't have "this mentality of 'healers are not DPS, therefore, they should not have DPS beyond the bare minimum".

The "bare minimum" for WHM would be having Holy (or Glare, but Holy is useful in AOE as well as single target) and literally nothing else. Glare, Dia, Misery, and Assize are not needed. And that's not counting Presence of Mind and that Swiftcast can be used as a DPS gain. A single spell that does damage is all you need to get through solo content. So we already have more than "the bare minimum".

Also, Tanks with cast time spells? Yeah, that'll work really well with positioning bosses.

Healers aren't DPSers, but Tanks are also not Healers, nor Healers Tanks. What's next, do Healers need an invuln because Tanks have them? Do Healers need a Taunt because Tanks have them? No? Why not? Because they are different roles and thus have different needs and focuses, right?

.

Again, I'm not now - nor have I ever - argued for Healers to have no DPS abilties or "the bare minimum" (of just one single) DPS ability. Ever. I've even outright argued AGAINST people who pitched that idea, either seriously or in mockery.

I also, as you know, stand for a position where a couple of Healers get more damage buttons and rotations, specifically for people that want that. In fact, I take the exact opposite of your "consistency" approach, other than I think every role should have at least one easy and at least one complex offering.

Though now that I think of it...I wonder what the damage button difference is across TANKS.

PLD: 17 (20 if you count Swords separate), 15 for single-target (boss) fights (e.g. not counting AOE rotation), 14 not counting Shield Bash
1-2-3, Atonement, Intervene, Holy Spirit, Expiacion, Circle of Scorn, Fight or Fight, Requiescat, Goring Blade, Confiteor, Shield Lob, Shield Bash, Total Eclipse, Prominence, Holy Circle

WAR: 15 (17 if you count Infuriated spenders separate), 11 for single-target (boss) fights
1-2-3, Storm's Eye, Tomahawk, Fell Cleave, Primal Rend, Inner Release, Infuriate, Upheaval, Orogeny, Onslaught, Overpower, Mythril Tempest, Decimate

DRK: 17 (don't play it so not sure but I think that also includes 3 AOE rotation buttons, so that comes down to 14 for single-target? Though I think they also have a couple "X replaces Y" buttons, I'm not sure which they are)
1-2-3, Edge of Shadow, Plunge, Bloodspiller, Blood Weapon, Carve and Spit, Living Shadow, Salted Earth, Abyssal Drain, Shadowbringer, Unmend, Quietus, Unleash, Stalwart Soul, Flood of Shadow

GNB: 17 (21 if counting the Continuations as 4 different things), 14 for single-target
1-2-3, Sonic Break, Rough Divide, Blasting Zone, Double Down, Bow Shock, Burst Strike, Gnashing Fang, Continuation, Bloodfest, No Mercy, Lightning Shot, Demon Slice, Demon Slaughter, Fated Circle

So there's a spread of 11-15 (difference of 4) between the low and high end for single target, and...that spread is similar for including AOE of 15-17, or 17-21 if including the "X replaces Y". Meaning a wider spread from "least DPS buttons to most DPS buttons" than Healers, where the spread is, what...1?

WHM: 5 for single target NOT including Swiftcast or Thin Air or Solace/Rapture, 9 if including them, 6 if just the base single-target + Holy, 10 if everything + Holy
Glare, Dia, Assize, Misery, Presence of Mind, Swiftcast (arguably), Thin Air (laughably), Solace/Rapture (by proxy), and Holy

SCH: 4 NOT including Chain or Dissipation, 6 if including them, 7 if including Art
Broil, Biolysis, Ruin 2, Energy Drain, Art of War, Chain Strategem (technically a burst damage CD), Dissipation (in practice)

AST: 3 used in single target directly dealing damage, 5 if we count the burst CDs, 8 if we count Cards, 6 if we count single target + Gravity, 9 if we count everything + Gravity
Malific, Dia, Earthly Star, Gravity, Minor Arcana (sometimes), Draw/Play (if counting), Astrodyne (if counting), Divination (if counting as burst)

SGE: 5 used in single-target, 6 if we also count Dyskrasia, 8 if we count the shields to break for Toxicons.
Dosis, Eukrasia Dosis, Plegma, Toxicon, Pneuma, EuPrognosis/Diagnosis (IF we counted Solace/Rapture), Dyskrasia

This gets us a spread of 3-5 for single target and 7-10 if we count everything (note for the Tanks I was counting everything, including things that don't directly do damage like Infuriate...not sure I counted Blackest Night for DRK, I suppose you could add that?)

.

Not really making a point here, just was curious and using this to write them down.

EDIT:

Though on reading...that makes WHM only 2 less than WAR on single target fights IF you do count all their abilities (3 if you don't count Thin Air, 5 if you don't count Solace/Rapture), though at that point, we have to talk about if things like Tomahawk should count. But it's still interesting that WHM is already the most DPS-loaded of the Healers any way you look at it.

I suppose the closest "point" being made here is "they don't all need to be the same". Obviously, the spread for DPS Jobs is even wider (SMN being the lowest and whatever that highest one being something like 8 more, NIN or DRG, maybe...? I'd have to look up that thread again.)