How would you solve the boring "damage rotation" of the healers?

[LilimoLimomo]

This game isn't WoW, it isn't Ragnarok Online, it isn't FFXI - it's FFXIV, a game where healers do damage constantly, focusing on always keeping their GCDs rolling like every other job and have always had an inherent tradeoff built in between using a GCD for healing or for dealing damage.

I agree that that's what the game is. But at least according to the man at the top, it's not what the game is supposed to be. Yoshi-P has gone on the record numerous times (in 2017 and 2021) saying that in group content, there is no expectation that Healers do damage and that for balancing purposes their DPS is assumed to be zero. And since those times, he has never said anything to the contrary. So if that's his stated design goal, and the highest difficulty content in the game leaves enough time to spam DPS spells that healers get sick of it, then I would say that there are some tuning issues there where the design goals aren't quite being realized.

[Saraide]

I agree that that's what the game is. But at least according to the man at the top, it's not what the game is supposed to be. Yoshi-P has gone on the record numerous times (in 2017 and 2021) saying that in group content, there is no expectation that Healers do damage and that for balancing purposes their DPS is assumed to be zero. And since those times, he has never said anything to the contrary. So if that's his stated design goal, and the highest difficulty content in the game leaves enough time to spam DPS spells that healers get sick of it, then I would say that there are some tuning issues there where the design goals aren't quite being realized.

First of all is his statement not reflected in ingame balance at all and secondly this would lead to standing around not having your gcd rolling for 75% of the fight at minimum.

[LilimoLimomo]

First of all is his statement not reflected in ingame balance at all and secondly this would lead to standing around not having your gcd rolling for 75% of the fight at minimum.

As to your first point, that's literally what my post that you're replying to said.

For your second point, I feel like you have to be misunderstanding what's being said here; if you genuinely think that Ultimates requiring a threshold of healing at which healers don't have time to DPS would lead to not having the GCD rolling for 75% of the fight, you'll have to explain that one to me.

[fulminating]

As to your first point, that's literally what my post that you're replying to said.

For your second point, I feel like you have to be misunderstanding what's being said here; if you genuinely think that Ultimates requiring a threshold of healing at which healers don't have time to DPS would lead to not having the GCD rolling for 75% of the fight, you'll have to explain that one to me.

Do you have any idea how much incoming damage you're asking for and how loathed it would make healers?

[LilimoLimomo]

Do you have any idea how much incoming damage you're asking for and how loathed it would make healers?

Asking for the game's ultimate difficulty content to have healing requirements high enough so that that there isn't bandwidth for healers to get tired of spamming DPS spells doesn't seem unreasonable to me. If you disagree, then we disagree, and that's fine.

[Saraide]

As to your first point, that's literally what my post that you're replying to said.

For your second point, I feel like you have to be misunderstanding what's being said here; if you genuinely think that Ultimates requiring a threshold of healing at which healers don't have time to DPS would lead to not having the GCD rolling for 75% of the fight, you'll have to explain that one to me.

As an example: the highest p12s phase 1 healing log has an HPS of over 18k and the other healer did legit nothing. 78% of that scholar's GCD are for damage spells. You seriously have no idea what you are asking for.

[LilimoLimomo]

As an example: the highest p12s phase 1 healing log has an HPS of over 18k and the other healer did legit nothing. 78% of that scholar's GCD are for damage spells. You seriously have no idea what you are asking for.

With respect, I don't understand what you're trying to say. It sounds like you're saying that right now the content is too easy, and therefore content being designed harder would be bad. Which doesn't make sense to me, so I assume that's not what you're intending to say. So I will kindly request that if you have an argument to make that you fully explain it.

[Saraide]

With respect, I don't understand what you're trying to say. It sounds like you're saying that right now the content is too easy, and therefore content being designed harder would be bad. Which doesn't make sense to me, so I assume that's not what you're intending to say. So I will kindly request that if you have an argument to make that you fully explain it.

What savage/ultimate experience do you have?

[Ivtrix]

What savage/ultimate experience do you have?

You looked, I looked, we both know the answer to that question

[LilimoLimomo]

What savage/ultimate experience do you have?

See, here's the thing. I'm totally here for good faith discussion/debate. If you'd like to participate in that, fabulous, I'd love to hear what you have to say. But your question has huge gate-keeping/ad hominem vibes, which doesn't really have any place in a productive discussion.

If I wanted to have that kind of exchange, I would just reply with, "How many RPG's have you worked on combat design on?" It would be pretty chill, because for 99% of the people here, the answer would be zero. And anyone misguided enough to think that credentials trump a coherent argument would make the mistake of thinking I was one of the few people qualified to talk about the design of combat encounters.

But I don't do that, because that's bullshit. That's not how logic works, and it's not how a healthy debate arrives at a sound and logical conclusion. You may not have experience designing combat, but that in no way means you won't have good ideas. So I'm here to listen to what you have to say in good faith. If you have a compelling and well-reasoned argument, I genuinely want to hear it. If I'm wrong, if my logic doesn't check out, I want to be convinced of that.

So if you've got a well-reasoned argument, I hope you'll share it with me. If not, that's totally cool; I'll just talk with others instead.