Please make Dark Missionary a level 70 ability

[TomsYoungerBro]

Looks like this works for you.

Time to adapt buddy

Hilarious how much that comment struck a nerve with you. Fall guys event got you tilted storm peaks :P?

I did adapt and cleared every ult on Dark Knight, including UWU and UCOB where this would be missed. There is no reason Dark Knight shouldn't have their AoE mit at this point though

This happens with other abilities on other jobs as well. At a new expansion, they look at what a job doesn't have that other jobs in the category do have and add it.

So some jobs get an AoE version of an ability later than another job, or a gap closer later than another job, and that's how it is.

One example was how Paladin spammed Holy Spirit like Warrior spams Fell Cleave. Then they added Confiteor to Paladin. In EW, they thought, let's give Warrior a version of Confiteor (Primal Rend).

But since they gave Paladin a Blade of Faith combo, we could dare to make the prediction that Warrior will get an Axe of Rage combo in Dawntrail, and that would not be available at the same level as Paladin's version.

SE just does this with the jobs so if they fixed Dark Missionary we could pose the question of why not balance the time of gaining similar abilities across all jobs as well.

This is a false equivalency. You are comparing giving something to a class as opposed to just adjusting what a class already has. SE has given every Tank an AoE mitigation. Why isn't Dark knights level 70? They fixed Dark Knight's AOE problems with Stalwart soul patches ago. Its the same issue here.

[Jeeqbit]

This is a false equivalency. You are comparing giving something to a class as opposed to just adjusting what a class already has.

No it is not. You did not understand my post.

I said that lots of other abilities are like this. As I said, Paladin gets Confiteor at level 80 and Warrior gets Primal Rend at level 90. Paladin gets a gap closer at 74 while Dark Knight gets it at 54.

It's because they view it as the abilities that were added in that expansion at that level and they usually try not to change the rotation they once had unless it's absolutely needed, like with Summoner and Paladin. And even then, they still try to keep it familiar to how it was by leaving Summoner with egis at lower levels and keeping actions like Goring Blade, Royal Authority and Holy Spirit at the same level just used differently.

[TomsYoungerBro]

I said that lots of other abilities are like this. As I said, Paladin gets Confiteor at level 80 and Warrior gets Primal Rend at level 90. Paladin gets a gap closer at 74 while Dark Knight gets it at 54.

I mean the gap closer should definitely be looked at for paladin then, no? I'm sure there are other cases of these issues outside of just Dark Missionary. Like i said before, Stalwart soul got adjusted a few patches ago. Would you have been throwing out this same argument before then? I would also argue mitigation =/= damage. Every tank role has at least reprisal + an AoE mitigation at 70 except Dark Knight. It should be fixed .

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I mean the gap closer should definitely be looked at for paladin then, no? I'm sure there are other cases of these issues outside of just Dark Missionary. Like i said before, Stalwart soul got adjusted a few patches ago. Would you have been throwing out this same argument before then? I would also argue mitigation =/= damage. Every tank role has at least reprisal + an AoE mitigation at 70 except Dark Knight. It should be fixed .

Having all tanks learn the same things around all the level brackets makes for a boring levelling experience. The actual outlier here is Gunbreaker doing too much having access of basically everything at 70 so if anything their Heart of Light should be moved up or their damage output be adjusted.

DRK got Stalwart Soul at 6.0 down to Lv40 because it was a decent streamlining of gameplay, making using Flood of Darkness / Shadow in AOE not a slog and far more accessible. Having Dark Missionary down at 70 does nothing for the job except just create another tank that has an AOE mitigation, which there is already plenty of even if you were to have a Dark Knight in your party. You make up for it for frequent access of TBN.

So let's go about it, let's make sure all tanks have all fundamental tank things at Lv70, because why not? There are ultimates right? Let's give:

-Paladin their dash and possibly even their HP recovery on using damaging spells at low levels because they need it and other tanks have it
-Warrior Nascent Flash because they are kind of just a Holmgang bot and can't give anything to their co-tank, so they need it and because other tanks have it
-Gunbreaker Fated Circle at Lv70 so they can finally use AOE spenders, which they totally need at that level to inflate their already way too high damage on UcoB adds and because other tanks have it
-give all other tanks their Lv82 mitigation upgrade to achieve parity with TBN's power because they clearly need it

We can go on and on about how much you are "griefing your party" for playing Dark Knight, but at the end of the day you absolutely do not need it because there is enough mitigation as is and lacking one will not make the fight unclearable.

[TomsYoungerBro]

Having all tanks learn the same things around all the level brackets makes for a boring levelling experience.

DRK got Stalwart Soul at 6.0 down to Lv40 because it was a decent streamlining of gameplay, making using Flood of Darkness / Shadow in AOE not a slog and far more accessible.

Clearly there are some things that can be learned at the same level though, right? Seems like you were ok with Stalwart soul being moved to account for that. No reason other abilities can't be given the same treatment.

-Paladin their dash and possibly even their HP recovery on using damaging spells at low levels because they need it and other tanks have it

Well i don't play paladin. Paladin is the only one with spells in their rotation, so not sure if that is actually a good idea or not (i know you are being sarcastic). Gap closer at a lower level makes sense though!

-Warrior Nascent Flash because they are kind of just a Holmgang bot and can't give anything to their co-tank, so they need it and because other tanks have it

Yes, actually

-Gunbreaker Fated Circle at Lv70 so they can finally use AOE spenders, which they totally need at that level to inflate their already way too high damage on UcoB adds and because other tanks have it

Pretty sure this is not a universal tank thing. Warrior and DRK have it sure (because WAR is just DRK with less buttons).

You make up for it for frequent access of TBN.

-give all other tanks their Lv82 mitigation upgrade to achieve parity with TBN's power because they clearly need it

You are very heavily overrating TBN. TBN has a huge downside of requiring 3000 MP to use. If it does not pop, it is a damage loss. This means you will not be using it every 15 seconds. You will actually be using it less than all the other unique tank mits in most scenarios. To say the lv82 mitigation upgraded those to parity with TBN's power is absurd. DRK's also got "oblation" which was essentially the buff to TBN.

We can go on and on about how much you are "griefing your party" for playing Dark Knight, but at the end of the day you absolutely do not need it because there is enough mitigation as is and lacking one will not make the fight unclearable.

Strawman argument. No one is saying the fights are unclearable as DRK. People cleared them on Dark Knight on release and currently.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

[1]Clearly there are some things that can be learned at the same level though, right? Seems like you were ok with Stalwart soul being moved to account for that. No reason other abilities can't be given the same treatment.
[2] Well i don't play paladin. Paladin is the only one with spells in their rotation, so not sure if that is actually a good idea or not (i know you are being sarcastic). Gap closer at a lower level makes sense though!
[3] Yes, actually
[4] Pretty sure this is not a universal tank thing. Warrior and DRK have it sure (because WAR is just DRK with less buttons).
[5] You are very heavily overrating TBN. TBN has a huge downside of requiring 3000 MP to use. If it does not pop, it is a damage loss. This means you will not be using it every 15 seconds. You will actually be using it less than all the other unique tank mits in most scenarios. To say the lv82 mitigation upgraded those to parity with TBN's power is absurd. DRK's also got "oblation" which was essentially the buff to TBN.
[6] Strawman argument. No one is saying the fights are unclearable as DRK. People cleared them on Dark Knight on release and currently.

[1] Stalwart Soul is a gameplay flow-changing skill that breaks AOE monotony that got introduced since Shadowbringers and was a "sold solution" for a problem that was created based on how they butchered DRK. Dark Missionary is an extra cooldown to mitigate damage. While I get your points of wanting it at Lv70 so all tanks have parity, it is not comparable in a gameplay sense.

[2] Spells are still just GCDs. What I refer here is mainly the Lv84 trait of offensive spell healing. I am half-sarcastic, if its any consolation but I don't see the need for it at that level, same with the dashes. They are a nice touch, but I don't actively miss the dash nor do I think there needs to be parity for Paladin here.

[3] Agree to disagree, I'd think it would be massive overkill for Warrior at that level.

[4] Fair enough, I forgot Paladin has yet to have it at that level. (moving Fated Circle lower "is" a fairly common request I see)

[5] While I may be overrating the power of TBN, you are equally overrating the downsides of TBN. 3000 MP to use simply means you have to pool your MP accordingly and you plan on using TBN where you know it will break - which is either busters or strings of auto attacks (min.2, max any) to mitigate fluff. If someone fails to make it pop, that is their issue to figure out and does not diminish the power of TBN, it is just a risk. Frankly I have been using TBN very close to the 15s mark in ultimates if not on the 15s marks - not everywhere, but I had enough situations where the 15s CD benefitted me.

TBN overall is a stronger cooldown than Sheltron and Heart of Stone, Raw Intuition maybe pulls ahead due to the sustain aspect. Lv82 upgrades put them ahead and Oblation is the "parity" here to put them roughly on equal spots, at that point it would depend "what" you are using them for and how frequently to get the best value out of them.

[6] Fair enough. I personally simply see no need for Dark Missionary at Lv70 then other than streamlining the levelling experience for all tanks (which can be considered boring)


Out of the box comment - I hate what they did to Lv70 tanks by making Gunbreaker the "I have everything" tank and honestly kinda wish Gunbreaker didn't have Heart of Light at that level because I feel like this is the main catalyst for why the expectation for DRK to have theirs moved lower exists...

[TomsYoungerBro]

TBN overall is a stronger cooldown than Sheltron and Heart of Stone, Raw Intuition maybe pulls ahead due to the sustain aspect. Lv82 upgrades put them ahead and Oblation is the "parity" here to put them roughly on equal spots, at that point it would depend "what" you are using them for and how frequently to get the best value out of them.

Heart of Corundum and Bloodwhetting run laps around TBN + oblation, so I would not even put parity in quotations on that one xD. TBN is good comparatively to the other tank mits pre-level 82 changes, but it definitely doesn't give near enough benefit to not have any AoE mitigation. Paladin also has 2 AoE mits here, so Sheltron + 2 AoE mits well outweighs TBN.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree on Dark missionary.

[NekoMataMata]

I mean the gap closer should definitely be looked at for paladin then, no? I'm sure there are other cases of these issues outside of just Dark Missionary. Like i said before, Stalwart soul got adjusted a few patches ago. Would you have been throwing out this same argument before then? I would also argue mitigation =/= damage. Every tank role has at least reprisal + an AoE mitigation at 70 except Dark Knight. It should be fixed .

A tldr of what they're saying is that SE doesn't care about anything besides balance for current end game. This includes past ultimates. It would obviously be nice, but they don't usually bother adjusting. There's plenty of jobs at various levelling dungeons that are just awkward to play because of their skill sets at those levels.


It really should be fixed but it likely won't, and some people will even defend it because apparently fixing it would mean job homogenization which is supposedly boring. Probably sounds fair until you play the various jobs at each of their awkward points and realize that it doesn't really make the experience anymore interesting.

[Jeeqbit]

I mean the gap closer should definitely be looked at for paladin then, no?

Sure. It doesn't bother me that much, but it is kinda odd and might make sense for them to look at.

However, I do really appreciate the idea that we "sync down to the rotation and kit of a previous expansion" because then it more closely resembles the experience we actually had in that expansion. So if, for example, we didn't have Dark Missionary available when that content was current, then the newer players doing it will get to have that same experience - negative or punishing as it may be.

Like i said before, Stalwart soul got adjusted a few patches ago. Would you have been throwing out this same argument before then?

Yes, in fact I'm sure I probably did sometimes in my thousands of posts.