Criterion normal should drop Savage-equivalent gear.

[Jeeqbit]

However then I heard that you still need to clear P11?

One of the patches will allow us to get the tomestone weapon upgrade from alliance raid coins, which will make P11S unnecessary. However, by then the relic weapon will also be able to achieve the same item level as the one from criterion (665).

[Iselion]

One of the patches will allow us to get the tomestone weapon upgrade from alliance raid coins, which will make P11S unnecessary. However, by then the relic weapon will also be able to achieve the same item level as the one from criterion (665).

Exactly, so it's a savage-clone weapon for savage raiders who cleared savage and it will be outclassed by the final tome relic step come January. What the hell, SE?

[Genbe197]

Depending on which V and C and timing it should be
Varient drops ilvl= to crafted set<- The timing of this set should be in the .x5 patch after the crafting set is released.
Varient drops ilvl equal to current HIGH LVL tomeset. <- the timing of this set should be in the .x5 patch after the final savage raid is released
Criterion drops upgrade mat for HIGHLVL tomeset to equal savage raid ilvl. < this should be in the .x patch after the final savage raid is released
Criterion SAVAGE drops Ultimate type weapon glam equal to savage raid weapon in ilvl for the class you did the Criterion savage on.

[ICountFrom0]

I'm prepared to accept that the savage should perhaps drop savage tomes, as a way to get them unlimited before savage goes unlimited.... specially given that it seems to be on the even patch, after, what 2 months of savage?

Not sure about it being something you can do from anything even vaugely "normal".

[Saraide]

Exactly, so it's a savage-clone weapon for savage raiders who cleared savage and it will be outclassed by the final tome relic step come January. What the hell, SE?

The only purpose seems to be for glams. The way it is implemented makes it obvious that SE didnt intend to to be part of the gearing process. Criterion savage tries to take aspects of ultimate content and it seems the weapon is no exception. Not well thought out imo.

[Raikai]

I feel the weapon is a good reward for Criterion Savage (mode 3), but we still needed something interesting for Criterion (mode 2), and it would be exactly the ability to buy tome armor augmentation items with a certain amount of currency.

[ShadowNyx3]

Normal Criterion is very good content and highly accessible for the mid core and they absolutely should get over this absurd hesitation to add alternative gearing options into the game.

Savage Criterion, despite having a more desirable reward now, is still content that is highly inaccessible to even the hard core and appeals to the smallest percentage of players in the game. It is the only content in the entire game which restricts all forms of resurrection, requiring players to play perfectly for over 20 minutes with little to no downtime, something that not many people will ever be able to do. Combining that with the fact that the only change to the dungeon is higher tuning on the trash damage and boss HP, what you’re left with is an embarrassing effort from the devs in comparison to the dedication given to high-end contents like Ultimates and the 48-man raids.

That being said, Savage Criterion could be easily fixed. 1) Keep the exact same resurrection restrictions as Normal Criterion. 1 raise per player, per boss is not only fair, but it’s FUN. 2) Tune the bosses even more than in current Savage. With resurrections restored, the Savage bosses can be made more punishing and have even higher dps checks. 3) Add a unique boss. All of the Variant dungeons have a secret 4th boss that is completely neglected in the Criterion. This boss should be added into the Savage mode to offer a unique fight for players which is something that almost all savage difficulty contents have. To do this you must also… 4) Remove the instance enrage timer. While the idea of having a timer pushing you to move quickly from fight to fight has been used effectively before (A6 Savage), all it is doing here is making a unique restriction on already existing content that players could just self-impose; and it is preventing anything new and interesting from being added to the mode because you can’t ever expect players to progress through something new when they have to play perfectly to even see it.

I feel like these changes would offer a solid mid and hard core option for alternative gearing that is also fun and accessible. These devs have the perfect opportunity here to add more variety to this cycle we’ve been on for 10 years now. Please don’t just push it to the side like everything else that isn’t 8-man raids.

[Raikai]

they absolutely should get over this absurd hesitation to add alternative gearing options into the game.

I wish we could know what happens. Do they think that adding an alternative geraring option for the mode 2 would invalidate the Savage Raiding?

Because you can purchase augmentation items already just doing the Alliance Raids or spamming Hunts, which are light years more casual that the V&C mode 2. If they add a sensible amount of Criterion coins required for a Shine or Twine, they can gauge the pacing that those items come by.

Plus, doesn't Criterion and Criterion Savage require you to be Savage bis or near bis to be ran without issues? This whole thing wouldn't even work to gear up your main job.

Edit: I honestly hope this is more a 'testing the waters' situation and we can expect a much better reward system in Dawntrail's V&Cs.

[Colt47]

My feeling is they do not want the game to turn into world of warcraft where everyone and everything exists just to increase item level. Yet the problem is that by even having a method to increase item level through more difficult content, they already opened that door. That and Shadowbringers kind of introduced a lot more people to savage due to the easier fights. Overall even though savage was hard in Shadowbringers, it wasn't built quite like the current tier is where its super sensitive to server latency. Blunderville illustrates the exact problem that p12s and p10s sort of has with designing so many mechanics to instantly kill people if one guy messes up.

I'd rather have everyone just have access to the max iLvL possible without doing the savage and have the savage just be like the ultimates, where it's more about completing the fight than getting something like a more powerful weapon.

[RitsukoSonoda]

My feeling is they do not want the game to turn into world of warcraft where everyone and everything exists just to increase item level. Yet the problem is that by even having a method to increase item level through more difficult content, they already opened that door. That and Shadowbringers kind of introduced a lot more people to savage due to the easier fights. Overall even though savage was hard in Shadowbringers, it wasn't built quite like the current tier is where its super sensitive to server latency. Blunderville illustrates the exact problem that p12s and p10s sort of has with designing so many mechanics to instantly kill people if one guy messes up.

I'd rather have everyone just have access to the max iLvL possible without doing the savage and have the savage just be like the ultimates, where it's more about completing the fight than getting something like a more powerful weapon.

A lot of these gearing discussions IMO are a result of the choice to trim nearly every RPG aspect out of the game. As a result they've been stuck with this issue because they removed just about every possible opportunity for horizontal progression which what kept FFXI going for numerous years because there were so many different types of options available on gear.