Alliance Raid Now iLvl Locked, Why??

[Erzaa]

You have to look at it in the context of how many people have actually reached the point that unlocking them becomes an option, saying 50% of people never unlocked Bozja implies that 50% of those who have the option to unlock Bozja have unlocked Bozja, however only 66% of the playerbase has completed the MSQ, obviously there is some amount in EW but 50% of 100% is about 80% of 66%, this is of course using Bozja as a proxy for ivalice, lalaachievments is better and put completion of the raids at over 95%

I see.

I wouldn’t even consider Gil sink a factor in here, old crafted gear is extremely cheap, lack of incentive for people to level crafters is a different argument to the Gil sink problem, but neither factor in here because old gear is cheap

Uhm, no, it's very relevant. You're arguing for players who may or may not have the funds to buy said gear and funnel their limited gil to players who have the means of crafting it. Having said that, how cheap the gear is, depends entirely on the gear's level and the demand for said gear as well. If we were all to just shut up and buy said gear, even level 60 gear would increase in demand, raising their prices, making them even more expensive, funneling even more gil. So it's very relevant, and that's saying nothing about what the gear will cost next expansion.

Because it’s locking out the very small fraction of people who don’t have this stuff unlocked; if you are level 84 in the post ARR MSQ you aren’t helping anyone because the roulette doesn’t need any more incentive to pop CT, this change increased the priorities of people queuing for the roulette who are adequately levelled and have all the raids unlocked

I see. So a fraction of the playerbase losing access to something they had in the past, they don't matter.

You realise overleveled players don't necessarily need to be in ARR right? They're just one example. You could have level 70s still doing HW, level 80s still doing SB, level 90s still finishing up ShB. I have everything up to Nier unlocked and I'm locked out of AR on my favourite jobs right now. All those players, could be queueing right now and might have just decided to give up on AR completely. I know I have. It's also a matter of principle.

I have no idea why you are acting like the level 90 playerbase made some unified decision on this, I have no reason to defend squares decision on this as some point of pride, it has just been a positive change for the roulette

On this, I agree. I was merely commenting on the fact that previous posts mentioned this was something the playerbase suggested and pushed for and SE implemented to appease them. Take it with a grain of salt.

[Supersnow845]

Buying gear is only one option, we are talking about a tiny fraction of the playerbase and there is an upper limit to the prices because there is a tje roof of the cost of vendor bought gear (plus crafted gear is annoying to make) this problem isn’t going to start a crafting revolution where meany omniceafters extort low level players of Gil for access to the alliance roulette

And yes, my point doesn’t change, the greater the proportion of 90’s with all raids unlocked the better the roulette is for its actual function….popping raids for people who queue directly for them, this could be fixed by forcing people to unlocked cap level side content but they are never going to do that so increasing proportion of 90’s is the next best option

This isn’t the best option but the alternative of checking the MSQ just returns the ILVL cheese by proxy problem; which for the record I support forcing unlocking side content to keep the roulettes open on all roulettes with optional content so I also support locking the normal raid roulette if you refuse to unlock anything besides A1 and A2

[Erzaa]

Buying gear is only one option, we are talking about a tiny fraction of the playerbase and there is an upper limit to the prices because there is a tje roof of the cost of vendor bought gear (plus crafted gear is annoying to make) this problem isn’t going to start a crafting revolution where meany omniceafters extort low level players of Gil for access to the alliance roulette

What vendor bought gear is going to uncap someone in Cryptlurker gear who is level 90 and without access to Endwalker content?

And yes, my point doesn’t change, the greater the proportion of 90’s with all raids unlocked the better the roulette is for its actual function….popping raids for people who queue directly for them, this could be fixed by forcing people to unlocked cap level side content but they are never going to do that so increasing proportion of 90’s is the next best option

I see. So a level 80 with Ivalice and Nier unlocked doesn't count? Only people who've completed every expansion are the best option? Why even progress the story then? Every new player should just buy a boost to 80 and do Endwalker. The roulettes are there to fill the queues for every player queuing not just those at 90. Or else there wouldn't be an MSQ Roulette and poetics wouldn't be rewarded to 50s/60s/70s/80s.

90s are not the only important player.. Once they've done their patch content and farmed everything they could, some will unsub or stop queuing and go do something else. Having 80s and 70s, who still haven't completed everything in the game, available to fill queues is just as important.

This isn’t the best option but the alternative of checking the MSQ just returns the ILVL cheese by proxy problem; which for the record I support forcing unlocking side content to keep the roulettes open on all roulettes with optional content so I also support locking the normal raid roulette if you refuse to unlock anything besides A1 and A2

How does adding an extra two conditions to the existing solution return the ilvl cheese problem? It's not overleveled players who are causing ilvl cheese. It's high level players who were taking off their gear that was causing the ilvl cheese problem. Are we really getting to a point now where we're going to lump together ilvl cheesers and players who take their time doing the content slowly, or overleveled because of the road to 80 buff?

It's only slightly more annoying to ilvl cheese now. As soon as the current raid farming is done, and the endgame players got all their stuff and just start doing the roulette to cap for the week, they'll start cheesing the raids again to get the best reward for the least effort.

[Supersnow845]

You missed my point; I’m not saying that nobody besides 90’s should queue im saying if you aren’t queuing directly for a raid and instead queuing via the alliance raid for the person queuing for a random raid statistically a level 90 with everything unlocked is the most useful person to them because they have the best opportunity to help them, the bonuses exist to encourage higher level players to queue for old content to fill the queues, of course a level 80 player who has ivalice and nier unlocked isn’t useless but they do block myths, so just based on the average person, level 90’s are the most helpful as generic roulette queuers for roulettes filled with optional content

And again you miss my point, I’m not saying you are actually ilvl cheesing by being overlevelled I’m saying that to a person trying to queue for nier raid 3 a person purposefully ilvl cheesing and someone at level 79 in the HW MSQ queuing for the alliance raid functionally achieve the same thing- proccing crystal tower over tower at paradigms breach

You have to understand that the position you are in is not the target for the roulettes, and you having access to them on an overlevelled character while in the HW MSQ is inadvertently causing the same problem as intentional ilvl cheesers

[Erzaa]

I didn't miss your point at all. I disagree with your previous statement. Like you said:

the bonuses exist to encourage higher level players to queue for old content to fill the queues, of course a level 80 player who has ivalice and nier unlocked isn’t useless but they do block myths

Someone queuing for myths, should just queue for myths, because that's what the latest raid to farm. If someone else with myths unlocked queues for AR they'll be added to it. If at the same time a level 60 player queues to do Void Ark, a level 80 player is in a better position to help them, because they've done it, they can be added to it while the level 90s help each other to farm myths. The roulettes are there to populate the queue for players progressing through the msq, not just for 90s to farm myths.

And again you miss my point, I’m not saying you are actually ilvl cheesing by being overlevelled I’m saying that to a person trying to queue for nier raid 3 a person purposefully ilvl cheesing and someone at level 79 in the HW MSQ queuing for the alliance raid functionally achieve the same thing- proccing crystal tower over tower at paradigms breach

You have to understand that the position you are in is not the target for the roulettes, and you having access to them on an overlevelled character while in the HW MSQ is inadvertently causing the same problem as intentional ilvl cheesers

And no I don't buy that, sorry. Just because the end result is the same, doesn't mean the solution should remain this way.

One, because even if I just buy the gear off the MB as a 79 in HW MSQ, then I'm allowed to queue and functionally I'm still going to force CT, and when going back to my own MSQ all I'm accomplishing is making my MSQ even easier than it already is in the process and two, the developers added alot of extra little easter eggs into the MSQ for completionists, indicating that they do in fact encourage you to take your time and unlock as much as you can.

[Supersnow845]

I didn't miss your point at all. I disagree with your previous statement. Like you said:



Someone queuing for myths, should just queue for myths, because that's what the latest raid to farm. If someone else with myths unlocked queues for AR they'll be added to it. If at the same time a level 60 player queues to do Void Ark, a level 80 player is in a better position to help them, because they've done it, they can be added to it while the level 90s help each other to farm myths. The roulettes are there to populate the queue for players progressing through the msq, not just for 90s to farm myths.



And no I don't buy that, sorry. Just because the end result is the same, doesn't mean the solution should remain this way.

One, because even if I just buy the gear off the MB as a 79 in HW MSQ, then I'm allowed to queue and functionally I'm still going to force CT, and when going back to my own MSQ all I'm accomplishing is making my MSQ even easier than it already is in the process and two, the developers added alot of extra little easter eggs into the MSQ for completionists, indicating that they do in fact encourage you to take your time and unlock as much as you can.

That comment shows you did miss my point because I’m not saying that someone who wants to queue for myths should queue through the alliance roulette I’m saying if persona a wants to queue for a raid (it doesn’t matter which one just any raid amongst the 12 of them) for their queue to pop faster person b who is level 90 and has everything unlocked is more useful on average than person c who has only CT and ivalice unlocked, this is taking a roulette wide view, in your example the person who is level 90 is still equally as useful as the level 80 to the level 60 but they are also the only one useful to the level 90 so in the roulette wide view the 90 should be more encouraged, this has nothing to do with farming myths

And that’s why I have said the objectively superior option is to lock the optional roulettes as soon as you have the ability to access new content for them but the recent bungle with Gaia shows that they refuse to even entertain that idea, the next best solution is what we have now because low level queuing is still ilvl cheesing by proxy, you can even dodge it with the methods listed, it’s why I don’t think this is a perfect solution, but MSQ checking won’t be a roulette wide improvement because of the fact that alliance raids draw 24 people

[Erzaa]

That comment shows you did miss my point because I’m not saying that someone who wants to queue for myths should queue through the alliance roulette I’m saying if persona a wants to queue for a raid (it doesn’t matter which one just any raid amongst the 12 of them) for their queue to pop faster person b who is level 90 and has everything unlocked is more useful on average than person c who has only CT and ivalice unlocked, this is taking a roulette wide view, in your example the person who is level 90 is still equally as useful as the level 80 to the level 60 but they are also the only one useful to the level 90 so in the roulette wide view the 90 should be more encouraged, this has nothing to do with farming myths

No, you're missing my point. Assuming two players, one level 90 and one level 80, queued for AR at the same time... if another level 90 is farming Myths, the level 90 in the AR queue is better positioned to help them over the level 60 who just queued for Void Ark. The level 80 however, can't help with Myths, so they'll be pushed to Void Ark. I'm explaining how a level 80 or even lower may be more important than a level 90 in some situations for people progressing. I'm not claiming the level 90 isn't important, I'm saying in such a situation the level 90 would be more useful to help in content that lower level players wouldn't be.

And that’s why I have said the objectively superior option is to lock the optional roulettes as soon as you have the ability to access new content for them but the recent bungle with Gaia shows that they refuse to even entertain that idea, the next best solution is what we have now because low level queuing is still ilvl cheesing by proxy, you can even dodge it with the methods listed, it’s why I don’t think this is a perfect solution, but MSQ checking won’t be a roulette wide improvement because of the fact that alliance raids draw 24 people

I'm sorry, I don't know what bungle you're referencing.

[Supersnow845]

No, you're missing my point. Assuming two players, one level 90 and one level 80, queued for AR at the same time... if another level 90 is farming Myths, the level 90 in the AR queue is better positioned to help them over the level 60 who just queued for Void Ark. The level 80 however, can't help with Myths, so they'll be pushed to Void Ark. I'm explaining how a level 80 or even lower may be more important than a level 90 in some situations for people progressing. I'm not claiming the level 90 isn't important, I'm saying in such a situation the level 90 would be more useful to help in content that lower level players wouldn't be.



I'm sorry, I don't know what bungle you're referencing.

The 90 is equally useful to both, it depends on which queued first, that’s what I mean, the 90 is more Omni useful

Oh sorry I won’t say more than basically a major side character should have shown up in the MSQ but they refused to do it properly because she was a side character, which shows they are never going to do the best option of locking down the roulettes

[Erzaa]

Oh sorry I won’t say more than basically a major side character should have shown up in the MSQ but they refused to do it properly because she was a side character, which shows they are never going to do the best option of locking down the roulettes

I know who Gaia is, don't worry. I guess I can infer that they did something in the EW MSQ to cover cases for those who didn't complete Eden?

[Supersnow845]

I know who Gaia is, don't worry. I guess I can infer that they did something in the EW MSQ to cover cases for those who didn't complete Eden?

Basically they said they would have special cutscenes for people who did eden and then they really didn’t follow through because the whole MSQ would have worked so much better if they had forced people to just do eden so they could use Gaia freely