SE, love the fight design but tone down the instant deaths a touch?

[angienessyo]

I don't really mind them as I'm used to body checks in Ultimate and tbh, I don't expect body checks to really be a thing in the first 1-2 tiers of Dawntrail. I think this tier they were just seeing how they could ramp up the difficulty as it's the last tier of the expac. I think my only complaint with them is depending on when a death or two happens, it can make RDM's rez kind of useless and they use the rez as the reason to keep the job from being stronger. But to be honest, as someone that's done the tier on RDM, it's not often I'm in a situation where I can't save the day as I know when people are going to die and rez them at the speed of light.

While I personally don't mind the mechanics, I can understand why people do though. It does put a lot of pressure on each individual which can be stressful and put even more pressure on people that might be slower at learning certain mechanics. And not everyone performs great under pressure.

[Colt47]

I don't really mind them as I'm used to body checks in Ultimate and tbh, I don't expect body checks to really be a thing in the first 1-2 tiers of Dawntrail. I think this tier they were just seeing how they could ramp up the difficulty as it's the last tier of the expac. I think my only complaint with them is depending on when a death or two happens, it can make RDM's rez kind of useless and they use the rez as the reason to keep the job from being stronger. But to be honest, as someone that's done the tier on RDM, it's not often I'm in a situation where I can't save the day as I know when people are going to die and rez them at the speed of light.

While I personally don't mind the mechanics, I can understand why people do though. It does put a lot of pressure on each individual which can be stressful and put even more pressure on people that might be slower at learning certain mechanics. And not everyone performs great under pressure.

In the case of Ultimates the body checks are justified, I agree on that part. There's a lot of problems with how endgame progression works right now as they got only one way that people really get rewarded, which is savage, while there is a slew of side content that is basically pure grind whose rewards just come out on moogle tome events later. That and calcing out the hours, it is something like 120 - 144 hours with a good group to generally clear a tier assuming everyone is coordinated. When those hours have to be broken down across weeks piecemeal, such as with most groups doing 6-9 hours, there is "compounding interest" in the time needed even with guides. That interest is burnout, displaced progression between group members, getting ill, late arrivals, forgetting mechanics due to not practicing between sessions, etc. They just aren't doing enough to give people ways to complete the savage content when they aren't optimized.

[ValkyrieL]

No, it ends in a rez spam and trivialize mechanics, with over gear, you basically brutefoce clear

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

No, it ends in a rez spam and trivialize mechanics, with over gear, you basically brutefoce clear

That's what enrage are for. This bypasses the need for enrage. It also discourages players. Rather than limp through and hit enrage at 30%, but see and learn parts of the fight, you wall and just suffer until your group gets past that one mechanic, only to wall again on the next.





I get that many players who don't see this as an issue play with groups who do ultimates like they are easy and all have 99%s, but this is more an arguement for casual raiders.

[Raikai]

I find especially egregious when the wall is 1/3rd into the fight. As a PF raider It hits on the prog pace even harder than people's inconsistent prog points.

[Reimmi]

More things like harrowing in p10s would be nice instead of "oh you didn't stand at the exact pixel needed, you die and cause you died the next mechanic that needs the whole party alive kills everyone"

e.g more healer/mitigation checks that require more than 1 off global from healers

[IDontPetLalas]

More things like harrowing in p10s would be nice instead of "oh you didn't stand at the exact pixel needed, you die and cause you died the next mechanic that needs the whole party alive kills everyone"

e.g more healer/mitigation checks that require more than 1 off global from healers

I'm convinced that this is exactly what discourages many people from even attempting certain content. It could be quite stressful in the knowledge that a relatively insignificant error, or a slight amount of lag, or even someone simply having a bad day or a bad time on one mechanic could lead to your party wiping. Even worse if you, or your party - can't use any of your skills to recover from your mistake . Not everyone enjoys that.

[ForteNightshade]

The game was broken in shadowbringers due to the stats, but that also got a lot more people to do savage which is why the feedback from back then was more positive. Savage was easier and more accessible to everyone, and now it feels like it isn't since the fights are too tight and do not allow outlets.

Have you actually done a lot of Savage? Shadowbringers had just as many, if not more, body checks or near guaranteed fail states.

Cloud of Darkness had PvP tiles, Shadow Dog's void circles were a guaranteed wipe if someone was dead, never mind how easy it was for void orbs to kill several people. Fatebreaker is basically a harder Themis. Is someone dead for partners? Better hope he doesn't pick a tank or healer. You weren't recovering third phase cycles if the healers go down. Finally, we get to Eternity/Gaia which have Lion Rampant, time warps and a litany of "do this correctly or die."

None of these fights were any more or less accessible for the general playerbase. Same goes for previous tiers or even expansions. Jumping back to Stormblood, we had the infamous Hello, World and Limit Cut from O12S alone.

The only real shocker this expansion in terms of difficulty is Pandæmonium because we usually don't have such a highly tuned fight as the second encounter. Frankly, I love they didn't hold back for once and only wish Themis had been more interesting.

Now I do think they could scale the back checks back somewhat but like Seebazy mentioned prior, it's damn near the only option they have to actually challenge players. Healers, and to a lesser extent, tanks have far too many tools nowadays.

Nevertheless, Savage hasn't been "easier" in prior expansions.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Have you actually done a lot of Savage? Shadowbringers had just as many, if not more, body checks or near guaranteed fail states.

Cloud of Darkness had PvP tiles, Shadow Dog's void circles were a guaranteed wipe if someone was dead, never mind how easy it was for void orbs to kill several people. Fatebreaker is basically a harder Themis. Is someone dead for partners? Better hope he doesn't pick a tank or healer. You weren't recovering third phase cycles if the healers go down. Finally, we get to Eternity/Gaia which have Lion Rampant, time warps and a litany of "do this correctly or die."

None of these fights were any more or less accessible for the general playerbase. Same goes for previous tiers or even expansions. Jumping back to Stormblood, we had the infamous Hello, World and Limit Cut from O12S alone.

The only real shocker this expansion in terms of difficulty is Pandæmonium because we usually don't have such a highly tuned fight as the second encounter. Frankly, I love they didn't hold back for once and only wish Themis had been more interesting.

Now I do think they could scale the back checks back somewhat but like Seebazy mentioned prior, it's damn near the only option they have to actually challenge players. Healers, and to a lesser extent, tanks have far too many tools nowadays.

Nevertheless, Savage hasn't been "easier" in prior expansions.

I think it's more, there was only 1 real body check per fight. This tier, there are multiple per fight. P12s is almost every mechanic.


I found e8s far easier to prog than p12s, and everyone hated e8s because of light rampant.

[Raven2014]

That's what enrage are for. This bypasses the need for enrage.

No it doesn't. A pure enrage check will become irrelevant as people get more geared. The body check is there to make sure the mechanic always remain relevant regardless of how geared you are