How do you define (meaningful) choice?

[Renathras]

So, the same as... another non-choice?

Let's not mistake finger-traps with actual choices. If there is no use case, ever, for the given action, it literally cannot be a choice, only a mistake. The ability to make more mistakes does not inherently mean more choice.

I...

...I think...

...I think this is what I've been saying all along?

We agree?

Well... we did. Not loudly, nor across what would necessarily appear to be a majority, but yes, we did.

Something I once saw a person say was (paraphrasing) that the reason we have homogenization and simplification and all the other stuff people now complain about is because of people asking for it. It may not have been all at once, it may not have been a majority, it may have been without realizing the now-obvious outcome...but people asked for things. And what we have now is the result of SE trying to give people what they asked for or come up with solutions to what people said were problems.

The "law of unintended consequences"/"be careful what you wish for"/"corrupt a wish".

It wasn't just concerns about synergy elements during Stormblood. There was still talk about wanting buff alignment during Shadowbringers as well.

Sometimes, as players, there are things we see that sound good in concept, but once we experience that thing in execution, we recognize flaws in that concept. That's not to say everyone looks at the 2 minute meta negatively, but there have been people who have talked about wanting buff alignment in the past who have since swapped positions. MrHappy, for example. I can even give an example myself. Long before EW, I had wanted some sort of way to generate damage positive resources on Scholar though Adloquium breaking and have discussed that on the forums before. I'm not sure specifically where since it's been so long, but that is something I've brought up before. Now that we have Sage, I realize what a terrible idea that was, and it was something I wanted that I no longer do.

Based on Yoshi P's Brazil interview, though, it doesn't seem like they're unwilling to move away from the 2 minute meta, but it depends on the community.

I think this is the problem, but it's super hard to fix. If we give people SB AST cards, how can we be sure there won't be people advocating for Balance fishing? We can't. And there almost certainly will be such people. The question is how to deal with it.

As you point out, buff alignment was a thing people tried at the time. And even now, there are people who argue the 2 min meta is a great concept that's worked out and is good for players and the game. I've seen it before when posting threads asking about it - and I was kinda shocked, to be honest, considering even I thought the opposition to it was universal. It...actually isn't, though people liking it does seem to be a minority position.

I do appreciate your SGE example, and...I'm going to have to find this Yoshi P interview everyone's talking about, but if they are open to the community...that might be a good thing (if we've learned our lesson...though I doubt that the collective we actually have, but who knows?)