What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Theodric]

I don't expect them to do much about it at this point, so I'm just waiting to see if they can muster anything of interest going forward or whether the story will just continue the current string of silliness. I'd like to believe they may take on board some lessons from all this but I'm tempering expectations that they may just not care anymore.

I do not hold the view that the game offering different perspectives on Venat moving forward would serve to break anything. Certainly, the game hasn't shied away from bringing up and acknowledging the lingering consequences of characters that have already exited the storyline. It has happened already with Nidhogg, Ilberd, Yotsuyu and Ysayle. Even characters who are still around such as Hien and Merlwyb gain such treatment. At the very least they could stand to compromise by ensuring that the codex entries are more balanced and in alignment with each other across the various localisations.

Perhaps the game will continue down its current trajectory, or perhaps it'll change course. Only time will tell - and either way for as long as I continue playing I will continue to leave feedback relating to what I would like to see more or less of and encourage others to do the same.

I'm simply here to discuss stuff either way, whether they're listening or not.

[Nayukhuut]

I do not hold the view that the game offering different perspectives on Venat moving forward would serve to break anything. Certainly, the game hasn't shied away from bringing up and acknowledging the lingering consequences of characters that have already exited the storyline. It has happened already with Nidhogg, Ilberd, Yotsuyu and Ysayle. Even characters who are still around such as Hien and Merlwyb gain such treatment. At the very least they could stand to compromise by ensuring that the codex entries are more balanced and in alignment with each other across the various localisations.

I agree with this. The game acknowledging going forward that Venat wasn't perfect would break nothing. No one is perfect, and it is rather unrealistic that no one who learned the truth of Venat looked at her actions and didn't take pause.

I also agree that at the very least the different localisations should be as close to each other as possible.

[ChrysOCE]

I do not hold the view that the game offering different perspectives on Venat moving forward would serve to break anything. Certainly, the game hasn't shied away from bringing up and acknowledging the lingering consequences of characters that have already exited the storyline. It has happened already with Nidhogg, Ilberd, Yotsuyu and Ysayle. Even characters who are still around such as Hien and Merlwyb gain such treatment. At the very least they could stand to compromise by ensuring that the codex entries are more balanced and in alignment with each other across the various localisations.

Do you believe they will come back and revisit this (Venat, Ascians, Twelve) at all? It seems like they have closed everything off, almost to be shelved and forgotten about, as they move on with expansions. I suppose they could always dredge them back up, if they feel like new content is drifting.

[Theodric]

Do you believe they will come back and revisit this (Venat, Ascians, Twelve) at all? It seems like they have closed everything off, almost to be shelved and forgotten about, as they move on with expansions. I suppose they could always dredge them back up, if they feel like new content is drifting.

I have a hunch that it's more likely than not given how much of the story has been tied to them either directly or indirectly. That's especially the case if Dawntrail doesn't quite manage to stir up excitement. The people who really enjoy the Scions in their current form and who do not want any meaningful stakes to exist will no doubt be thrilled by the premise of a 'beach vacation' and 'easy going adventure' but it remains to be seen how the development team propose to engage those of us who want something with a bit more depth, nuance and grit. If not in the MSQ's then in side content.

Nostalgia is a powerful thing, though. The game already heavily leans on references to previous games in the franchise as well as throwbacks to earlier expansions. I imagine that'll continue.

To acknowledge Venat as a genocidal fool who should have told everyone and tried to stop the course of fate rather than stand by and do nothing as everything she knows will happen happened is to go against everything Endwalker believed itself to be. It has the story become meta in an unbelievably pathetic way that would willingly spit into prior writing's (that was done in two days mind you) face and throw a whole expansion under the bus for no reason other than as a weird excuse for failing as writers. I will never be in favor of such undignified weakness that has the writers prostrate themselves before the playerbase for having failed the way they did. I would take no pleasure in that, I would be embarrassed and hide my face in shame.

There is no way to fix Endwalker. Retroactively acknowledging that yes, it doesn't make any sense, will not serve to make the story any better at all and there is no way to transmute it into something beautiful nor is there meaningful storytelling potential in uncovering large swathes of Endwalker as basically a fever dream that didn't actually happen the way it did just because it sucked. The time for "different perspectives" on Venat has come and gone with Endwalker, an expansion that has doubled and tripled down on the one path we actually got to walk, a path that doesn't even understand itself. Besides Venat herself is clearly an unintended victim of a botched storyline that makes no sense in many many ways beyond just her behavior and character.

Venat's certainly one of the biggest victims in it all. She had the potential to be a much more interesting and tragic character in my view if only they had made a few slight tweaks here and there. Even something as simple as allowing Venat to be hit by the memory wiping beam would have worked to bring about that end.

Though given the route they decided to take there is inevitably going to be push-back whenever she's brought up - so if they do intend to truly move on from the Hydaelyn and Zodiark story arc then hopefully they actually commit to that. I'd have found Endwalker's patch content more engaging if it actually did as much.

At any rate, we'll see more of what they have in store for us next during the upcoming Fan Fest.

[Eisi]

I wouldn't mind ignoring her from now until the end of time and just writing off Endwalker as bad writing, but the story keeps doubling down on her and dredging her up. We find out the Twelve are false gods put there by Venat and that we have to pray to them else the planet destabalises and untold calamities likely happen as the actions of keeping a planet unnaturally apart come to a head, or we end up using something like the locator crystal MacGuffin to heal Zero.

The whole Twelve revelation being one of the worst. Why is no one in the story horrified that should we ever decide to become an atheistic society and stop believing in gods that Venat installed herself, the world as we know it could crumble?

This is a general statement - to have the story self-consciously avoid mentioning or involving prior plot points would be horribly irritating. Regarding your particular example, the myths of the realm storyline was largely decided on prior to the release of Endwalker. To course correct as a result of player feedback would have been exactly what I wish Square Enix did less of. I want them to tell their own stories rather than appeal to me and my sensibilities. If their stories happen to suck, at least they are honest.

However I think part of the reason Endwalker ended up the way it did was because they went back on a lot of the things they originally set out to do and didn't stay true to their own initial vision, partially due to a belief that that's not what the playerbase would want. That's when writers check out - when they don't actually get to tell their story and have to maneuver multiple restrictive frameworks that don't allow for any genuine storytelling. It's just speculation on my part tho based on the story getting cut down to one expansion and Ishikawa's initial draft being rejected two days prior to the deadline.

Additionally, I think what you're saying is not true. I might have checked out too much to care, but I'm pretty sure nobody in the story mentioned anything about the world crumbling if we don't continue praying to the Twelve or any such nonsense. The star also isn't continuously artificially kept asunder, conversely it would require effort against the new natural equilibrium after the Sundering to rejoin the reflections.

I do not hold the view that the game offering different perspectives on Venat moving forward would serve to break anything.

To acknowledge Venat as a genocidal fool who should have told everyone and tried to stop the course of fate rather than stand by and do nothing as everything she knows will happen happened is to go against everything Endwalker believed itself to be. It has the story become meta in an unbelievably pathetic way that would willingly spit into prior writing's (that was done in two days mind you) face and throw a whole expansion under the bus for no reason other than as a weird excuse for failing as writers. I will never be in favor of such undignified weakness that has the writers prostrate themselves before the playerbase for having failed the way they did. I would take no pleasure in that, I would be embarrassed and hide my face in shame.

There is no way to fix Endwalker. Retroactively acknowledging that yes, it doesn't make any sense, will not serve to make the story any better at all and there is no way to transmute it into something beautiful nor is there meaningful storytelling potential in uncovering large swathes of Endwalker as basically a fever dream that didn't actually happen the way it did just because it sucked. The time for "different perspectives" on Venat has come and gone with Endwalker, an expansion that has doubled and tripled down on the one path we actually got to walk, a path that doesn't even understand itself. Besides Venat herself is clearly an unintended victim of a botched storyline that makes no sense in many many ways beyond just her behavior and character.

[Nayukhuut]

Additionally, I think what you're saying is not true. I might have checked out too much to care, but I'm pretty sure nobody in the story mentioned anything about the world crumbling if we don't continue praying to the Twelve or any such nonsense. The star also isn't continuously artificially kept asunder, conversely it would require effort against the new natural equilibrium after the Sundering to rejoin the reflections.

The purpose of the Twelve, and then later the machine they left behind, is to stablise the planet. Take that away, and whatever they are trying to stablise against comes to pass. Who knows what that is, but it prolly isn't good if there had to be measures in place to manage it.