EW may be one of the worst expansions for raiders but was one of the best for casuals

[Atelier-Bagur]

You should define casual players. To me casual players are people that play a few hours a week (maybe up until 5, maybe 7), and have a lot of content they have not touched (like exploratory zones, for examples), and a backlog they will probably never complete. Those people have probably not seen any problem.

Problems come for players that play more and don't raid or go into high lvl content. They've probably engaged (maybe finished) most of the content. That's the public for which exploratory zone lacks.But those people can't really be called casuals anymore, despite often being grouped with them. Which lead to those situation where some says "it's bad for casuals, then a real casual comes and just say no. It's for those players (more midcore thus) the extension has been awful. If they don't raid, don't engage in very hardcore farming rewards, everything has been one off and they have no reason to do anything in the game right now. It has been a little better for hardcore players because of the raids, but long running content is also done by hardcore players, and they also felt it.

Casual to Hardcore player is not a two pole thing, but a spectrum, and I feel like a lot of the problem in EW are due to not seeing it like that, thus ignoring the whole middle of the spectrum. And this kind of thread participate to that problem.

This is the biggest mystery to me. Most of us have hectic work schedules and we'd realistically get a few or so hours of playing the game per day. Which I imagine its a major part of this game's intended audience.

The people who complain about retention are usually the ones whom have all the spare time in the world and honestly consider me jealous.

[Rehayem]

Can always get into roleplay and go to venues, you're on the best DC for it. That seems to be the main casual thing to do in this game, especially if you like afking.
/s

Sometimes I truly do regret moving to Crystal DC lol

[Saraide]

You should define casual players. To me casual players are people that play a few hours a week (maybe up until 5, maybe 7), and have a lot of content they have not touched (like exploratory zones, for examples), and a backlog they will probably never complete. Those people have probably not seen any problem.

Problems come for players that play more and don't raid or go into high lvl content. They've probably engaged (maybe finished) most of the content. That's the public for which exploratory zone lacks.But those people can't really be called casuals anymore, despite often being grouped with them. Which lead to those situation where some says "it's bad for casuals, then a real casual comes and just say no. It's for those players (more midcore thus) the extension has been awful. If they don't raid, don't engage in very hardcore farming rewards, everything has been one off and they have no reason to do anything in the game right now. It has been a little better for hardcore players because of the raids, but long running content is also done by hardcore players, and they also felt it.

Casual to Hardcore player is not a two pole thing, but a spectrum, and I feel like a lot of the problem in EW are due to not seeing it like that, thus ignoring the whole middle of the spectrum. And this kind of thread participate to that problem.

Even calling it a spectrum isnt all that helpful. Is someone doing p12s reclears for 2 hours per week and otherwise barely logging in a casual player? I'm sure some people will say yes but that's not really the same as someone who just runs one or two roulettes a day and never even touches savage. Hourly requirements are less helpful than we might think.

[LianaThorne]

Sometimes I truly do regret moving to Crystal DC lol

There's always Dyna for a free way out.

[FudoMyoo]

Casuals don't care, I(we) just need a good MSQ, mog station, glam & housing.

[TomsYoungerBro]

As some have already said in this thread, Endwalker was definitely good to hardcore raiders in terms of quantity. We got an additional ultimate that ShB did not have, and we were also given Criterion dungeons. However, I think it was moreso the quality of the hardcore content that was lacking (aside from exceptions like DSR for instance). Some examples of this in Endwalker were lack of proper rewards in V&C, Asphodelos was meh and Abyssos was a bad tier, TOP was not a very polished and IMO not well designed fight, as well as countless design decisions in terms of classes and overall boss design.

I believe the casual had it much worse in endwalker IMO. Not only was the quantity lacking, but also the quality. Island sanctuary is just a sweatshop/spreedsheet simulator, MSQ seems to be lacking for some people in the 6.x patch quests, relic is just a tome turn-in, deep dungeon is a near copy/paste of the original, Variant dungeons instead of a fleshed out exploration zone, and there may be other things i can't think of or don't know about at the moment. If you are a casual, your best chance at "content" was probably to just rp at venues (which is available regardless of the quality and quantity of content).

[CaedemSanguis]

Worst for the raiders ?

It's one of the best for raiders, and one of the worst for casuals

[Krokov]

And when the next x-pac Dawntrail nears it's end people will be saying this same stuff about it. In essence, there is no pleasing some people. No matter what they do, because they'll always find something to be bothered about, regardless of how minor or major it is.

Simply just enjoy the game for what you do like. If nothing in the game excites you or interests anymore, try something else. Hopefully you find or have a video game that does bring you a enjoyment.

[Erzaa]

I guess it all depends on everyone's viewpoint and opinion.

I'm a casual player. I haven't done Endwalker yet, but it having less things to do is a good thing from my point of view. I just reached rank 25 in Zadnor, unlocked Dalriada, and still haven't completed the one time grind of 30 of everything to collect. It's a miserable experience and I'm forcing myself to it. Eureka was a miserable slog too. I just do them for the story.

It took me 4 years to do every yellow, blue and msq quest on the map (bar Savage and Ultimates and EXs SB onward) and to finish all side stuff and I still need to slog through Carnivale for its story too.

I'm happy Endwalker has less stuff in it. I'm exhausted. I can do the content over Christmas and a couple of months after, and finally take a break and start the next expansion along with everyone else.

Maybe I'll find myself complaining too, after next expansion, I get why people might be annoyed. But in my view, Endwalker having less content is a breath of fresh air.

[CNitsah]

Even calling it a spectrum isnt all that helpful. Is someone doing p12s reclears for 2 hours per week and otherwise barely logging in a casual player? I'm sure some people will say yes but that's not really the same as someone who just runs one or two roulettes a day and never even touches savage. Hourly requirements are less helpful than we might think.

Hence the "and" after the time period mention. My point was not that time was the criteria, but one of the important ones with casual engagement into the game. If you spend 20 hours a week, even if you don't engage in anything more than low entry content (msq, maybe normal raids and alliance one), you're not a casual anymore. But I never wanted to say you're a casual if you have few hours. It's about how deeply you engage with the game, casual will only go on a superficial lvl (msq, maybe some normal raids or 24 mans instances here and there, some glam, but will not engage in more demanding content (either because of difficulty, time commitment or anything like that). Midcore (I lack better word) will do that, and touch to about everything in the game, to a certain degree, and are often seen as casuals by people that do engage in the most demanding content.

I guess it all depends on everyone's viewpoint and opinion.

I'm a casual player. I haven't done Endwalker yet, but it having less things to do is a good thing from my point of view. I just reached rank 25 in Zadnor, unlocked Dalriada, and still haven't completed the one time grind of 30 of everything to collect. It's a miserable experience and I'm forcing myself to it. Eureka was a miserable slog too. I just do them for the story.

It took me 4 years to do every yellow, blue and msq quest on the map (bar Savage and Ultimates and EXs SB onward) and to finish all side stuff and I still need to slog through Carnivale for its story too.

I'm happy Endwalker has less stuff in it. I'm exhausted. I can do the content over Christmas and a couple of months after, and finally take a break and start the next expansion along with everyone else.

Maybe I'll find myself complaining too, after next expansion, I get why people might be annoyed. But in my view, Endwalker having less content is a breath of fresh air.

"I'm fine with having less content, so people who were fine with the amount of ShB of patch content should not ask for that amount of content, so I can catch up".

It's a mmo, and for most of my last year experience in the game has been wonderous tails and caping my tomestones. That can be done in 2 to 3 hours a week. I wish the new content had a shelf life, because I don't have that backlog anymore. It took me years to complete, and I sure don't ask to have as many thing to do now that I had in the past, but still, I want some sort of long running content.

And you probably won't see the problem, because the content is still fine, but the problem is that there is no reason to do anything after the first week the content is out. Bozja used to be that thing to go in those off time, for different reasons. I'm fine with removing exploratory zone, but they should have created a content that served the same purpose. keeping people engaged between those content releases.