What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Theodric]

Venat successfully tagged Meteion and had the coordinates of her nest. She was also a well respected member of her society so the idea that the Convocation wouldn't listen to her is highly flawed - particularly if she came to them before the Final Days occurred. In addition, she had access to the Echo and we even see her using it to show the Warrior of Light what Hermes did with Meteion. Then, of course, there's the simple fact that many researchers throughout Elpis would have seen Azem's familiar travelling with Emet, Hyth and Venat. So Kairos ridding Hyth and Emet of their memories is largely irrelevant.

Zodiark was an essential part of her plan, so her opposition to summoning him was always feigned and exploited as a convenient excuse to misdirect her own followers (who she never revealed the truth to, either...)

Furthermore, the first two sacrifices were entirely willing and born of a plan painstakingly forged after other alternatives were pursued. A necessity to return Etheirys to a state of habitation.

Ultimately the game established that the protagonists belief genocide, eugenics and racial replacement are lines in the sand never to be crossed no matter how sympathetic the motives behind them.

She dithered on how the ancients would react to the report, in Ktisis saying most would simply be content to continue as they were with this knowledge, other than Hermes of course, then resorting to the convenient nonsense about the masses panicking later on. Even if that were a possibility, there is nothing stopping her from just telling the Convocation and handling the matter discretely with their aid. Besides, I'm not sure what this is about the ancients' attitude; we see from some of the Convocation crystals, e.g. Emmerololth, Mitron, Lahabrea and Elidibus, how resolved they were to save their star.

Venat gave her people no opportunity to succeed and actively sabotaged them - which makes her no different to Thordan or Ilberd who are both called out for doing as much even in the name of a greater goal.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Venat successfully tagged Meteion and had the coordinates of her nest. She was also a well respected member of her society so the idea that the Convocation wouldn't listen to her is highly flawed - particularly if she came to them before the Final Days occurred. In addition, she had access to the Echo and we even see her using it to show the Warrior of Light what Hermes did with Meteion. Then, of course, there's the simple fact that many researchers throughout Elpis would have seen Azem's familiar travelling with Emet, Hyth and Venat. So Kairos ridding Hyth and Emet of their memories is largely irrelevant.

Zodiark was an essential part of her plan, so her opposition to summoning him was always feigned and exploited as a convenient excuse to misdirect her own followers (who she never revealed the truth to, either...)

Furthermore, the first two sacrifices were entirely willing and born of a plan painstakingly forged after other alternatives were pursued. A necessity to return Etheirys to a state of habitation.

Ultimately the game established that the protagonists belief genocide, eugenics and racial replacement are lines in the sand never to be crossed no matter how sympathetic the motives behind them.

She dithered on how the ancients would react to the report, in Ktisis saying most would simply be content to continue as they were with this knowledge, other than Hermes of course, then resorting to the convenient nonsense about the masses panicking later on. Even if that were a possibility, there is nothing stopping her from just telling the Convocation and handling the matter discretely with their aid. Besides, I'm not sure what this is about the ancients' attitude; we see from some of the Convocation crystals, e.g. Emmerololth, Mitron, Lahabrea and Elidibus, how resolved they were to save their star.

Venat gave her people no opportunity to succeed and actively sabotaged them - which makes her no different to Thordan or Ilberd who are both called out for doing as much even in the name of a greater goal.

I think the reason why it doesnt get called out because it would acknowledge the paradoxical ethics of mankind. In which villians actively trying to destroy your life is considered wrong but if the Scions criticized Venat/Hydaelyn for her actions then they would have to deny their own existence. Ilberd, Thordan, Emet-Selch etc where all active antagonists wanting to kill us so of course they are the villians but to them we arent worth as living beings because they value something greater (which was the theme behind Shadowbringers and Emet-Selch). And the event of the Sundering happened millenia ago by the time of the game so there was no point to judge Hydaeleyn for her actions because its the whole crux for why we exist in the first place.

Because seriously how would you even respond to this?

"How dare you do this thing to your people which created our existence!" Should we just accept that the Ascians are in the right all along and that we dont mean anything?

[Theodric]

I think the reason why it doesnt get called out because it would acknowledge the paradoxical ethics of mankind. In which villians actively trying to destroy your life is considered wrong but if the Scions criticized Venat/Hydaelyn for her actions then they would have to deny their own existence. Ilberd, Thordan, Emet-Selch etc where all active antagonists wanting to kill us so of course they are the villians but to them we arent worth as living beings because they value something greater (which was the theme behind Shadowbringers and Emet-Selch). And the event of the Sundering happened millenia ago by the time of the game so there was no point to judge Hydaeleyn for her actions because its the whole crux for why we exist in the first place.

Because seriously how would you even respond to this?

"How dare you do this thing to your people which created our existence!" Should we just accept that the Ascians are in the right all along and that we dont mean anything?

It doesn't matter if it happened "millennia" ago, we're visiting the past in the here and now and interacting with the people she slaughtered even after Endsinger was dealt with by going back in time once again to interact with them for the benefit of the present day Sundered.

Venat's plan is to force the Scions to defeat her in battle or force them off the Star. Her plan entails the Shards will perish and is futile because Endsinger won't stop. All of that is ample reason for them to criticise her either in her presence, or to reflect on her actions later.

There is not even criticism in reflection of any of this as there was with Thordan and the Scions certainly won't stop existing if they ask why she didn't try other methods or view her with contempt. A serial killer can save someone's life though that individual can still be horrified by the fact that their saviour is a mass murderer. Furthermore, we've seen the Scions call out their own allies many times before. The entirety of the game is full of preaching on that front, no matter how mysteriously bereft it is when one of the greatest atrocities present in the setting is revealed.

There's this, for example:



Much as they're willing to criticise their own father they could easily aim similar comments at Venat...

I think you're simply being disingenuous and attempting to build up a straw-man to deflect away from the idea of Venat ever being held accountable in any meaningful way for her actions. It's perfectly possible to acknowledge the crime that is the Sundering without wanting to be unmade or considering the act of unmaking a good thing.

Ishgard faced same issue with Thordan and the church, who both acted as they did to preserve it from the dragons and seeded a noble lie on that basis. Nonetheless, they are still called out for it - by Ishgardians, no less.

The Nibirun situation is judging them for a pre-crime and she never addresses the situation to her people to allow them to confront it. The Nibirun themselves are shown to have hope rekindled in the Omicron tribe quests. They are but one Dead End of many, and one equally open to the sundered, since the Nibirun themselves were once mortal.

The Sundered have many flaws, shown throughout game and expansions isn't considered sufficient for them not to have a right to fight for their existence. The same areas you mention also showcase many of the virtues of ancient society, especially if you do the side quests. It may not be a perfect utopia but it is still a world that has achieved many, many good things.. Whatever JRPG themes the story might think it is aping here, it is ultimately trying to sell a genocide as necessary and there is no two ways about it. Meanwhile the Scions will still aim at the same lofty goals that would presumably result - if we take the story at face value - in the third dead end without a hint of irony

[Vahlnir]

Venat successfully tagged Meteion and had the coordinates of her nest. She was also a well respected member of her society so the idea that the Convocation wouldn't listen to her is highly flawed - particularly if she came to them before the Final Days occurred.

Yeah. The worst they really said about Venat was basically "Yeah, she's a little weird, but we respect her." Literally everyone viewed her in a favorable light. If they only knew what she kept from them...