What I think could help Make Gameplay More enjoyable.

[Rithy255]

Outside of changing 2 minute meta I think a lot still needs to be done anyway.

1. Give healers more to heal, take away some healing OGCD's, Reduce some healing potency honestly, maybe some extra DMG buttons also but I first rather they fix healing, more outgoing damage on fights would also be kinda neat, just a hard thing to balance.
2. Give Tanks less sustain in proportion to healing nerfs, but in general buff their party utility abilities, give them more to do, give them more uses for their target protections! Such as a Buster on a non tank job that tanks have to look out for
3. DPS, more Varity in the melee category I hope for the next melee to be Proc based, New caster should feel like a caster not phys ranged, Phys ranged should get another extra utility each.
4. Custom role actions, do a "select one of 3 role actions" that do similar things but some will be weaker with a shorter CD some will be stronger with a longer CD (EG a defensive like rampart where you can choose from a 10% mit, 20% mit or 40% mit, but the stronger mit have larger CD and likely a lesser duration), Just as a example.
5. make sub stats more interesting, Skill/spell speed are kinda the only stats that change up your job.


Some other things outside job design such as
1. Actual "Midcore" content to serve as a gap between Normal content to EXT, as theirs a natural progression to EXT > SAV > ULT, the gap between normal and EXT is too wide.
2. Making the tick rate of the server more clean and snappy.
3. Fixing level synching to be less annoying where each job is missing like half their core abilities.
4. Better item level synching, duties are too easy when gear is so high.
5. More battle content in general like bozja (even though im not the biggest fan of it)

[Avrintera]

Outside of changing 2 minute meta I think a lot still needs to be done anyway.

1. Give healers more to heal, take away some healing OGCD's, Reduce some healing potency honestly, maybe some extra DMG buttons also but I first rather they fix healing, more outgoing damage on fights would also be kinda neat, just a hard thing to balance.
2. Give Tanks less sustain in proportion to healing nerfs, but in general buff their party utility abilities, give them more to do, give them more uses for their target protections! Such as a Buster on a non tank job that tanks have to look out for
3. DPS, more Varity in the melee category I hope for the next melee to be Proc based, New caster should feel like a caster not phys ranged, Phys ranged should get another extra utility each.
4. Custom role actions, do a "select one of 3 role actions" that do similar things but some will be weaker with a shorter CD some will be stronger with a longer CD (EG a defensive like rampart where you can choose from a 10% mit, 20% mit or 40% mit, but the stronger mit have larger CD and likely a lesser duration), Just as a example.
5. make sub stats more interesting, Skill/spell speed are kinda the only stats that change up your job.


Some other things outside job design such as
1. Actual "Midcore" content to serve as a gap between Normal content to EXT, as theirs a natural progression to EXT > SAV > ULT, the gap between normal and EXT is too wide.
2. Making the tick rate of the server more clean and snappy.
3. Fixing level synching to be less annoying where each job is missing like half their core abilities.
4. Better item level synching, duties are too easy when gear is so high.
5. More battle content in general like bozja (even though im not the biggest fan of it)

I agree with some things for the most part the utility side of things. I do believe they have forgotten that utility does not mean dmg buff. Like monk can increase healing for the whole party to help out healers where is more stuff like that. Instead its increase dmg increase dmg..... I just don't understand how they have examples of good utility like what monks have or how scholars can increase move speed but gotta add a dmg resistance into it or it be shit ideas. Like why are bard songs all about dmg. The thing is to me they cant have better utility because like say bard gives haste so you can build guage faster etc well now that fucked my burst rotation as a paladin because of that buff button I have to hit it every 60 seconds not more not less to keep aligned. This is why I think we need to remove those buttons otherwise We can never have interesting utility interactions with the party unless its dmg because those burst buff buttons exist.

[Rithy255]

I agree with some things for the most part the utility side of things. I do believe they have forgotten that utility does not mean dmg buff. Like monk can increase healing for the whole party to help out healers where is more stuff like that. Instead its increase dmg increase dmg..... I just don't understand how they have examples of good utility like what monks have or how scholars can increase move speed but gotta add a dmg resistance into it or it be shit ideas. Like why are bard songs all about dmg. The thing is to me they cant have better utility because like say bard gives haste so you can build guage faster etc well now that fucked my burst rotation as a paladin because of that buff button I have to hit it every 60 seconds not more not less to keep aligned. This is why I think we need to remove those buttons otherwise We can never have interesting utility interactions with the party unless its dmg because those burst buff buttons exist.

I'd actually be interested in seeing unique utilities like scholars speed boost, I guess we couldn't use that too often if at all as scholars might feel annoyed that their unique utility is took away.

But in general I think the only major issue with having too many defensive/support utilities is that healer already doesn't need to do a lot with the tank changes, but at the same time I Really hope more jobs especially Tanks/phys ranged can gain some more utility in the future, while also making sure that healer is still a needed role type. I'm not pretending I know the full solution here but I can hope that SE doesn't see the Tank feedback from healers and see it as "make tanks big hp dps" Because i really enjoy how impactful tanks actually feel at times and i want more of that without taking from healer players.

DMG buffs i don't see as utility at all :/ I never got the idea of "selfish DPS" because sharing a damage buff isn't really utility its just another form of a damage button.

[Avrintera]

I'd actually be interested in seeing unique utilities like scholars speed boost, I guess we couldn't use that too often if at all as scholars might feel annoyed that their unique utility is took away.

But in general I think the only major issue with having too many defensive/support utilities is that healer has already doesn't need to do a lot with the tank changes, but at the same time I Really hope more jobs especially Tanks/phys ranged can gain some more utility in the future, while also making sure that healer is still a needed role type. I'm not pretending I know the full solution here but I can hope that SE doesn't see the Tank feedback from healers and see it as "make tanks big hp dps" Because i really enjoy how impactful tanks actually feel at times and i want more of that without taking from healer players.

DMG buffs i don't see as utility at all :/ I never got the idea of "selfish DPS" because sharing a damage buff isn't really utility its just another form of a damage button.

I agree that we shoudn't take away the healers usefulness, I think if we want more interesting things for jobs square needs to stop being terrified of bad healers. Because that is kinda whats holding healers back they have gotten so much healing/recover utility that is 70% of the time useless because square is to afraid to increase dmg against the normal player base because if their are bad healers that cant heal then either A) they think people will abandon the healer role and stop playing it. or B) that people will start becoming extremely toxic against bad healers in game. When I first unlocked bard long time ago and played it I really expected their to be alot more utility from it. Instead they kind of went the way of increase dmg only like I dont think bard has anything that actually is unique for utility other than increase dmg. (kinda going of the top of my head since I don't have all bard skills memorized.)

[Shurrikhan]

I will respond even though at this point people just highjack threads to talk about stuff that has threads for it already. I disagree with you saying that this is not important at all.

I haven't said that. My point is literally right there, in the very first line of the post you quoted: The discourse conflates separate issues as if they were all somehow caused just by raid buffs naturally syncing up now. We always functioned around burst and always tended towards automatic sync; the difference is only in what few additional things between major bursts have optimizable timings based on minor raid buffs and the relative punishment for missing the major window. I didn't say that difference was without any importance at all, only that it's often confused and/or accidentally exaggerated.

Maybe it's just the odd phrasing of your response, but... how is it that you simultaneously think the changes are important and yet insist that...

The thing I am suggesting and what I think the community doesnt understand is that we are so fixated on the 2 minute and how its so horrible, I mean am I the only one who realises its barely changed??

??? You seem to be in agreement, outside of that single strawman/exaggeration of my post (that the impact isn't important "at all", rather than merely that its impact is often confused/exaggerated).

This is what I am suggesting to remove all buff buttons and unlock buttons that lock away the most dmg a job can do and lock dmging rotation buttons away from being used.

To what end? In what way?

Why would it necessarily be better to use Perfect Balance and Blitz at any time than to have a particular window of commitment into which they fit?

Why would SAM be more interesting with Namikiri available from the start and separately from Ikishoten? (We always use our resource generators asap anyways, so the order of those skills would be unchanged; we'd just no longer be able to logically consolidate them into a single key, if we so desired.)

In some cases, I'd agree that the job would be more interesting without the "unlock" skill, but that's only when the unlock skill itself is bloat that doesn't alter the use, order, or pace of the unlocked action anyways, and its removal would actually increase the number and/or depth of optimizations available. But for all else?

Take even past iterations of our jobs: Why would Stormblood SAM be more interesting without Hagakure "unlocking" yet more burst, or Shadowbringers SAM be more interesting without Ikishoten and/or Iaijutsu "unlocking" Tsubame-Gaeshi?

[Rithy255]

I agree that we shoudn't take away the healers usefulness, I think if we want more interesting things for jobs square needs to stop being terrified of bad healers. Because that is kinda whats holding healers back they have gotten so much healing/recover utility that is 70% of the time useless because square is to afraid to increase dmg against the normal player base because if their are bad healers that cant heal then either A) they think people will abandon the healer role and stop playing it. or B) that people will start becoming extremely toxic against bad healers in game. When I first unlocked bard long time ago and played it I really expected their to be alot more utility from it. Instead they kind of went the way of increase dmg only like I dont think bard has anything that actually is unique for utility other than increase dmg. (kinda going of the top of my head since I don't have all bard skills memorized.)

Bard has Increase healing (like monk, it was made AOE mid EW), has single target esuna and obviously the standard phys ranged 10% mit.

SE was right, on making baseline healer more approachable at the lower levels, but the issue isn't that it's approachable it's more healer just has such a bloated and over tuned kit for the actual healing you will be doing, Good healer gameplay should be trying to maximise damage while also healing effectively, so newer healers could just get away with spamming heals... while the great healers can do a mix of both DMG/Heals.

I think to help with "bad healers" I unironically think we could actually give other jobs a "cure 1" equivalent as a role action (Most likely to all jobs), make the cast time 3 Seconds or something so that it's very suboptimal compared to just having a healer, but may help with some stress where a healer gets KO'd. (Side note: this could even help with some open world mobs or solo content hitting more harder and stuff). I don't really want to give more jobs rez at least :/

Obviously theirs no one "fix" to healer design that will make everyone happy, but I know current healers are very frustrated with how their role plays now, some healers want more DPS some want to heal more, I'm sort of in the middle on that one.

[Avrintera]

-snipe-

For the first part I wasn't directing that at you sorry if you thought that. Also if you read my first post that answers the question. But I will go over it again. The reason you use your abilties in a certain way is because they must line up under those buff windows end of story. Also If you read the entirty of my post you would see that my suggestion was that it would have to be changed to were you build up to use said thing. Like the example I gave for Paladin. Lets use sam for an example since you brought it up it has good things going for it you build naturally towards shoha by doing your rotation correctly to collect stickers use them in whichever way you want which after 3 uses empowers you to be able to use shoha. Now Lets look at the 2 minute that unlocks omni I do believe you could have the job build up to it naturaly over the course of time instead of hit button it autounlocks. Now how that would look is impossible for me to write down because It would be a massive shift away from the normal way of gameplay. Also Hagakure converts stickers into kenki don't understand how it unlocks burst per say. Also a dmging ability being used that lets another ability being used is not what I am talking about what I am talking about it abilites like Req Fof or on sam Ikishoten is one that became a bad one. Before it didnt unlock more dmg buttons it gave guage allowing you to start fights or during fights to recover or have kenki out the gate. It at 90 granting you the ability to use your hardest hitting attack should not be how it is used. Their is no way to reach namikiri other than through hitting a unlock button. Everything else you talked about is naturaly progression if you play correctly on sam, collect stickers hit button you get to hit twice a reward for doing it correctly doing it 3 times in a row gives you shoha naturally through doing the rotation correctly,

Is it not obvious how different that is to namkiri being locked behind the guage increase button that is a 2 minute timer without a natural way of getting their, Your not playing the job to unlock that big hit button you can hit it whenever and instantly use your biggest hit. unlike shoha and the sticker system which is completely different.

Also in passage I qouted you on you said talking about the cds wither they do big dmg or unlock them isnt super relevant or impactful to me means not important for the discussion.

Now for on monk yeah it would have to be changed I am talking about how it would be better to build up towards our biggest hits and not have everything behind either A buff button like Req/fof or B an unlock button. Having a buff button incentivises that you must get these hardest hitting abilities under these windows, Without a buff button then yes unlocks woudn't be as bad but their still boring. Like paladins change were you before only used hs with range or under req now doing 1 2 3 gives me DM. so I feel like I am empowering my magic through my rotation if that makes sense.

[Shurrikhan]

For the first part I wasn't directing that at you sorry if you thought that.

I thought as much because you said it... immediately after quoting me and specifically said "I disagree with your idea", just before... effectively listing out agreement. Why quote or specifically address a poster who is not related to the content of your post??

Also If you read the entirty of my post you would see that my suggestion was that it would have to be changed to were you build up to use said thing.

I did read the entirety of your post. Again, though:

Similarly, front-loaded (CDs and spenders from gauges that start full) vs. back-loaded (spenders, when gauge starts empty) aren't really that big a deal; they vary the opener, and that's it, while making it that much harder to balance short-but-difficult encounters (not that we have any at the moment, outside of maybe Criterion Savage) if any job swings too far one way or the other.

Unless given specific interactions (which CDs can likewise imitate through CDR and the like), any skill you "build up to" gets built up to at a particular interval of frequency, the same as a cooldown.

So instead of it being used at 0, 60, 120, 180, 240, and 300 seconds, etc., it just gets used at 60, 120, 180, 240, and 300 seconds, etc. Your opener is that bit less filled-out, you get less value from pots (unless you hold for 120s in and can nonetheless get the same total amount of tinctures in), and you perform a little worse the shorter the fight lasts. But that's it. That's the sum-total of change.

Now, if everyone does that, it doesn't really affect job balance, but it will still affect the relationships between roles in content that has significant downtime... unless you also do this even for, say, tank and healer CDs. And if you do that, in turn, you simply change the way we do dungeon pulls at relatively low item level (not even stopping full-pulls, but simply giving a soft-pull for resources first on the very first one and punishing parties for not saving enough gauge, especially at the end of each boss fight, for each full pull).

Also in passage I qouted you on you said talking about the cds wither they do big dmg or unlock them isnt super relevant or impactful to me means not important for the discussion.

I never said anything about the strength of CDs being unimportant; I said whether the frequency given is supplied by a CD or "built up over time" (such by gauge generated over that same period of time -- which is essentially just a CD that starts combat on cooldown) isn't going to be nearly so important to their appeal as you seem to think it will be. Because, in themselves, they are identical after the opener. You are focusing on the wrong aspect of their difference.

No part of that calls the "2-minute meta not important at all", as you since re-framed it.

Is it not obvious how different that is to namkiri being locked behind the guage increase button that is a 2 minute timer without a natural way of getting their, Your not playing the job to unlock that big hit button you can hit it whenever and instantly use your biggest hit. unlike shoha and the sticker system which is completely different.

What makes the "sticker system" different is that it's manipulable. If your only option were Midare, it'd be a 9-GCD CD (19.6s CD before Skill Speed) that starts combat on cooldown, and that's it.

It starting on cooldown isn't what makes it interesting; what it makes it interesting is Meikyo and the ability to overclock or underclock its alignment with Tsubame-Gaeshi and Higanbana because Setsu can be generated in one GCD fewer than the others and you can insert a Yaten-Enpi filler at low potency cost.

Shoha, meanwhile, is only interesting due to Namikiri, Tsubame-Gaeshi, and indirectly Meikyo and (occasionally making worse decisions in the moment in order to draw a net gain out of reducing conflict with) Meditate, without which it would just have a flat rate of use per minute, making it a simple CD in any combat without downtime.

It's the interaction that matters, not that you build up to them. You could start combat with 3 Sen and 50 Kenki and those systems would still be just as interesting. That the output's loop starts full, empty, or somewhere between is not particularly important.

[ThaCa]

Easiest way to more freedom in design is gutting almost all the party buffs. If everyone falls under the "greedy" definition, they can purely balance the classes around the total damage because utility no longer exists nor taxes them.

Surely this will make some Jobs more or less meta for each fight if their kits go wild with variety of personal cooldowns, but is it a bad thing? If everyone puts out enough damage and has their own niche it will allow people to play whatever they want or swap Jobs should they feel like it.

This would also open up more party compositions, you could attempt all melee or all ranged or any kind of mashup. With the current design of huge boss hitbox and auto repositioning the melee disadvantage is smaller than ever and the increased mobility of casters make them less prone suffering from higher movement fights.

Not to mention that it would also benefit Jobs that are more reliant on higher player count, so those that are bit lackluster in 4-man stuff would be more in line with the rest.

[Zakuyia]

o/ not gonna lie I'm the type who just waits for better gear to come out to breeze savage XD cause I don't like the drama the players there bring. I'm here to have fun not to deal with your irl drama that u bring in game for these fights. I'll stick to ex for a bit longer while I wait to Unsyc savage. I feels no shame in that.