The new 24 man alliance raids are a disappointment (mechanic wise)

[ZephyrMenodora]

Would be curious what the general ilvl is, for people doing this. I was in 640 WHM gear and yea, 3 vuln stacks and could still brush off another attack. To my mind, 2 vuln stacks on healer and you should not be surviving the next hit. If the reward gear is 650, the raid should be designed around this. Challenging (but not impossible and wipe after wipe after wipe) but, as you clear each week and get your gear up, it becomes easier (without it turning into Endsinger, pre-fix).

It also feels like more than just gear though. It's feels like the fights just aren't tuned to general level 90 kit. We have SO many abilities now, for both Healer and Tank. They can throw things out faster but they don't. WHM - oGCD heals, regen, medica II, plenary indulgence, liturgy of the bell, aquaveil, two charges of divine benison, temperance, aslyum. Almost like... there's no point in a tank buster, cause that will never bust a tank anymore.

As a Summoner at 650, if I was hit once and not healed, the next thing that hit me (even an unavoidable) would kill me. My healers were very "would rather cast glare" and ended up dying quite a bit due to this.

[ChrysOCE]

As a Summoner at 650, if I was hit once and not healed, the next thing that hit me (even an unavoidable) would kill me. My healers were very "would rather cast glare" and ended up dying quite a bit due to this.

Lol maybe that's why I survived, I generally try and use my actual kit. I woulda healed you over hitting the boss again. Death is unavoidable, but I don't like people dying when I am healer.

[ZephyrMenodora]

Lol maybe that's why I survived, I generally try and use my actual kit. I woulda healed you over hitting the boss again. Death is unavoidable, but I don't like people dying when I am healer.

Wish I had you as a healer =D I was in a pre-made of 7 high end 660+ geared raiders, and I was their +1 they probably kept for 1st time tomes, and I got not a single heal after being hit by anything.

As a WHM main, I do watch what the other healers are doing and they were very much in the glare zone. Never rezzed me either - other summoners outside my group did lol. Edit: Was unfair of me, I did get rezzed twice.

As an aside, I really dislike being the +1 in premades like this.

[ty_taurus]

When the metric is "there should be full party wipes before people clear fights", that's a Savage thing.

I really don't think anyone here is using "how many wipes" as a literal metric, but rather, an indication of how predictable and one-dimensional nearly all of the mechanics are. That in a brand new fight, with a large group of people, everything was so predictable and easy to resolve that very few people even got hit by mechanics in my group. Having mistakes is normal in a brand new fight is normal. Things should have layers to them that keep you guessing the first time around. If all alliance raids will be from now on will just be a test of how many half-room cleaves, chariots and dynamos, and row/column AoEs they can stuff into a single fight, then I'll just stop doing alliance raids. I don't want to spend 30 minutes doing that. I have no intention of doing these raids ever again throughout Endwalker, and I don't need the alliance roulette either.

Also, wiping once or twice is absolutely not savage level difficulty. Savage difficulty is hitting a wipe, then discussing how to progress through that because cooperation between all 8 players is a literal requirement, and probably doing that for several hours, timing out of the instance and having to requeue to continue. I've never in my life seen, or even heard of an alliance roulette end because the alliance timed out.

[Kuroka]

Then you didnt play during heavensward, for the first week or two we would frequently time out on Mhach... Ozma, or even the Spider boss killed us so many times lol

[KingArthur13]

I severely disliked the story personally, especially how rushed the conclusion was.

[ty_taurus]

Then you didnt play during heavensward, for the first week or two we would frequently time out on Mhach... Ozma, or even the Spider boss killed us so many times lol

Me? I was there, I'd see a wipe or two for stuff like Ozma. That was normal. Never has that ever resulted in us literally timing out of the instance. And I farmed all three void arc raids weekly.

[Kuroka]

Thats neat lol

We had so many many many wipes... adds on spider ignored, Ozma's adds, meteors, just his aoe... or, the OG acceleration bombs lol
Even Calo... a few times we had a fullwipe cause the tank had her pulled to the edge, turned sideways... and she cleaved into the room...

Or just wiped on Diabolos.. so... many times... or on Scathatch(?) with her add... heck even on proto ultima...

[ty_taurus]

Thats neat lol

We had so many many many wipes... adds on spider ignored, Ozma's adds, meteors, just his aoe... or, the OG acceleration bombs lol
Even Calo... a few times we had a fullwipe cause the tank had her pulled to the edge, turned sideways... and she cleaved into the room...

Or just wiped on Diabolos.. so... many times... or on Scathatch(?) with her add... heck even on proto ultima...

But did your groups run out of time to clear the alliance? As in the instance kicked you out?

[Kuroka]

Yes, on Ozma himself, or only had like 3-5 min left for Calo. PPl would just leave then even try the then... Though Mhach the was the only one we actually time out, besides some very rare Cid runs, ofc...