Shifting and Concerning Moods Regarding the Writing

[aveyond-dreams]

It was certainly not my expectation to see a post such as this one gain such traction on the main subreddit of all places, which is usually seen as a place of unconditional positivity and praise for the game. Unfortunately, it seems that the writing in the Endwalker Patches MSQ has not been received very well. In the end, no one really won with the story for varying reasons. The post can be found here, but I will also quote the text below:



It's an unfortunate consequence of neglecting feedback regarding the more controversial elements of the current writing, such as overall tone, handling of themes coming across as too forceful or preachy, and the fact that an increasing number of players have reached the limit of their patience with the scions while an ever decreasing minority of players have continually defended these characters.

This is not the result or reception I wanted to see for these patches, especially as an FFIV fan, but it was simply not to the same calibre that we have enjoyed previously. It is also not my intention to be overly negative without reason, at this point I think that those of us who care deeply for FFXIV need to realize that things have changed. It is especially concerning that Dawntrail seems to be written in the same vein as this - the stories told in FFXIV have never been one to make the player feel as if their time has been ill-spent or wasted on a plot of no consequence, but an expansion that very much presents itself as a "beach episode" following a patch MSQ arc like this one does not feel like the right move.

For the future, it is important to listen to more than just unconditional positive feedback in order to avoid situations like this one, as it does not feel that the story will be back on track until 8.0 at the earliest, assuming the key issues detailed above do not persist.

[Kaliesto]

The power of friendship has been a thing in Final Fantasy for a very very very long time.

Also don't forget this writing is for every T for Teen related Final Fantasy that tends to have that kind of writing (minus a few FF games that don't do that).

Do I like it? Not really unless its done really well, but it does get annoying they keep going that route with a lot of their FF games.


I'm almost convinced its like a requirement when they make a T-rated game.

[Absimiliard]

The power of friendship has been a thing in Final Fantasy for a very very very long time.

More of them lack this quality than have it. FFXIV is by no means the only FF willing to invoke this trope, but it is by and far the one to lean into it the most heavily. FFXIV is legit approaching Fairy Tail levels of power of friendship abuse at this point. I for one find almost any use of the trope grating, but there's an amount of it I can tolerate if it makes sense within the context of the story. FFXIV has long since left behind any semblance of logic or reason with most of its applications of the power of friendship, and it does in some instances appear to be quite self-aware regarding this fact.

For clarification: Having a party (and even having synergistic skills that are more powerful than those one might execute alone) is not representative of the power of friendship. The power of friendship is gaining a tangible power-up or access to new abilities out of nowhere simply because of "muh frandz." This is not to be confused with having one's friends or allies utilize skills or abilities intended to transfer some or all of their power to a different recipient, although the use of such things can become examples of the power of friendship if they are taken to silly extremes or used too liberally.

[Ranaku]

Y'shtola feels like a self insert character of the story writers, like she merged with Ishikawa when she entered the aetherial sea and now we have this cat demigod that dies every expansion and already knows everything.

And i am mortified to know that she will be right there with us in Dawntrail cause we already saw her in the trailer. So it will be just another expansion of this story that slowly starts to feel rather like a fan-fiction than what it used to be in HW.

It starts to feel like the games story is not our story but Y'shtolas story by now. She is the main character. We hoped for real "Newfound Adventures" but what we got was just the same old scions and the same old story about some zodiark shard and the same old "friendship triumphs" stuff we see since ARR. Which isn't bad but maybe give it a bit more nuance next time...

Edit: People remember HW so fondly cause we had one scion at our side mostly, which was Alphinaud. And we met almost only new faces or some that were teased just a bit in ARR. Iceheart, Estinien, Haurchefant and all the dragons while most of the missing scions weren't even touched until the story around thordan and nidhogg was basically finished.

[Aldath]

Y'shtola feels like a self insert character of the story writers, like she merged with Ishikawa when she entered the aetherial sea and now we have this cat demigod that dies every expansion and already knows everything.

And i am mortified to know that she will be right there with us in Dawntrail cause we already saw her in the trailer. So it will be just another expansion of this story that slowly starts to feel rather like a fan-fiction than what it used to be in HW.

Might be in a minority here, but I can't stand Y'shtola. I'd take being an entire expansion with Urianger speaking in old English with riddles than having to be with the Scion whose only personality traits are "I like sweets" and "Hah got cha' I'm so smart and snarky".

If she wasn't a Miqo'Te I bet all my Gil her fan base would be smaller. Since she's the flagship Catgirl she gets immediate attention, despite the being plenty of more attractive and interesting Catgirls in the game. I'm surprised that thread didn't get down voted to oblivion since the subreddit is like the Church of Y'shtola.

[aveyond-dreams]

Might be in a minority here, but I can't stand Y'shtola. I'd take being an entire expansion with Urianger speaking in old English with riddles than having to be with the Scion whose only personality traits are "I like sweets" and "Hah got cha' I'm so smart and snarky".

If she wasn't a Miqo'Te I bet all my Gil her fan base would be smaller. Since she's the flagship Catgirl she gets immediate attention, despite the being plenty of more attractive and interesting Catgirls in the game. I'm surprised that thread didn't get down voted to oblivion since the subreddit is like the Church of Y'shtola.

Imagine if she were a femroe and think how many "fans" she would have.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Imagine if she were a femroe and think how many "fans" she would have.

People liked moenbryda and she was in all of 2 patches.

Her personality is what's entertaining to me, not her appearance.

But then, you hate her anyway, Mr "Y'shtola is only a 3, so she can't talk back to Magnai, who is a 7 or 8"

[Palladiamors]

I'll start off with the obvious, the problem is that this thread is coming from you. You're a known dissatisfied element so the usual suspects are going to brush you off

The thing is, I've played many MMOs down through the years and those core "Everything is fine!" people exist in all of them. Those people will go until shut down news swearing it's all peaches and cream. The last one I rode into oblivion was Marvel Heroes online and woooo was there some denial going on there.

Now, XIV isn't in that kind of condition yet. It's still identifiably XIV and it's still, in my opinion, the best overall MMO on the market. But that quality has noticably dropped over the past two expansions. The early warning signs are there, from heavy homogenization designed to stream line future processes to pulling off key team members and utilizing them elsewhere to being told they are out of classic jobs to use in spite of how blatant a lie that is. The little things are causing a bleed right now. On their own and at the moment it's not too bad, it may even rectify itself if the player response on the financial side scares them enough.

But the thing is, you can have the calmest, most well thought out reasoning for why you think something is a bad thing and that crew won't even consider it. To them, it either just isn't a negative or it's inconsequential.

Say it anyway. Believe it or not they do read these forums. It's important to be vocal about the things that dissatisfy you with a product. Some of it won't change, executive meddling or Word Of God generally won't be compromised, but some of it will. So if you still have any positive emotions about this game at all, let them know.

For me, personally? Eight or so years into the games life span they removed 70% of my favorite job and left in the parts I didn't particularly care for while cramming in a bunch of flashy, extremely safe parts to replace it. I hated it. I got told, largely by people who hadn't mined the job since 2.0, how great it was. It robbed me of my gateway into the game to such a degree that for the first time since 2015 or so, I actively unsubscribed and uninstalled the game. And worse, I couldn't find a satisfying way to articulate what I was feeling. 2022 was a baaaddd year for me and I wound up going into a deep depression ((Not over the game)) and I didn't even have my usual fall back any more.

But I think it's time to do a full write up on the issues with Nu Summoner with a list of possible changes and options. Make no mistake, I am not asking for the removal of it because I wouldn't do to other players what was done to me.

[ElysiumDragon]

What did you like about old Summoner, Palladiamors (approve of the name by the way ^^)?

[Lunaxia]

I'll start off with the obvious.

Really, really well said, in every respect, and I've little else to say apart from you're far from alone in a lot of your feelings. Similarly a SMN main here who was appalled not only by what the devs did to the job but how they went about it, but for the sake of my sanity I had to stop discussing it before I heard one more person who has barely touched the job since XIV's inception crow about how it's inarguably better because the glowy buttons and shiny avatars make them feel cool now. It's a true testament to the current trend of society's preoccupation with flashy aesthetics over actual substance or function, and FFXIV is jumping on the bandwagon on all accounts. God forbid SCH, WAR or BLM get such treatment, though as you say despite my resentment I wouldn't wish such a slap in the face on anyone.

And it's a double whammy, because if the gameplay was simplistic but the story/ content was at least somewhat decent, or vice versa, there'd be something left for the game to offer, but the gradual decline has seeped into everything, and at a time when we could use these escapes now more than ever (see: the news for the past three years.) It's a really unfortunate situation.